00:00:00>> SUPPORT FOR "THE STATE OF
OHIO" COMES FROM THE LAW OFFICES
00:00:05OF PARKER AND MORRIS, HELPING
INDIVIDUALS AND BUSINESSES SOLVE
00:00:11PROBLEMS THROUGHOUT OHIO AND
AROUND THE WORLD.
00:00:13AND FROM THE OHIO EDUCATION
ASSOCIATION, REPRESENTING
00:00:21131,000 TEACHERS, SUPPORT
PROFESSIONALS, AND HIGHER
00:00:25EDUCATION FACULTY, WORKING FOR
GREAT PUBLIC SCHOOLS FOR EVERY
00:00:29CHILD.
ADDITIONAL SUPPORT FOR "THE
00:00:32STATE OF OHIO" IS MADE POSSIBLE
BY ETECH.
00:00:36>> GOVERNOR KASICH'S FELLOW
REPUBLICAN LAWMAKERS MAKE A
00:00:40SURPRISING DECISION ON THE
HIGHEST-PROFILE PROPOSAL IN HIS
00:00:42UPDATED BUDGET.
MERIT PAY FOR TEACHERS IS
00:00:44GETTING A LOT OF EXAMINATION --
WE'LL HEAR FROM THE STATE
00:00:46SCHOOL SUPERINTENDENT AND THE
STATE'S LARGEST TEACHERS UNION.
00:00:48AND THE MAN WHO LED THE
LANDMARK LAWSUIT THAT PROCLAIMED
00:00:51OHIO'S SCHOOL FUNDING SYSTEM
UNCONSTITUTIONAL TALKS ABOUT
00:00:55WHETHER ANOTHER SUIT AGAINST
THE STATE COULD BE AHEAD.
00:00:57ALL THIS WEEK IN "THE STATE OF
OHIO."
00:01:00WHAT WAS ARGUABLY THE MOST
TALKED ABOUT IDEA IN GOVERNOR
00:01:06JOHN KASICH'S BUDGET UPDATE TWO
WEEKS AGO IS NO LONGER IN THE
00:01:10LEGISLATION THAT RESULTED FROM
IT -- BECAUSE GOP LAWMAKERS
00:01:13STRIPPED IT OUT.
A FEW REPUBLICAN LAWMAKERS HAD
00:01:17COMPLAINED THAT THEY DIDN'T SEE
THE DETAILS OF GOVERNOR
00:01:20KASICH'S PROPOSAL BEFORE HE
UNVEILED IT PUBLICLY.
00:01:22A FEW DAYS LATER, IT WAS THE
GOVERNOR'S TURN TO CLAIM HE WAS
00:01:25BLINDSIDED, WHEN HE FOUND OUT
THAT HIS PLAN TO INCREASEç%
00:01:28SEVERANCE TAX ON OIL AND GAS
DRILLERS TO FUND AN INCOME TAX
00:01:31CUT WAS CUT OUT.
>> I AM DISAPPOINTED THAT IT IS
00:01:40NOT GOING TO HAPPEN NOW.
I REALIZE THAT SPECIAL INTERESTS
00:01:45HAVE A DIFFERENT POINT OF VIEW
ON THIS, BUT I WANT TO MAKE IT
00:01:48CLEAR THAT WE WILL KEEP PURSUING
THIS.
00:01:50THIS APPEARS TO BE THE FIRST
INNING OF WHAT IS GOING TO BE A
00:01:54LONG BALL GAME.
>> THE OIL AND GAS INDUSTRY HAD
00:01:58BLASTED THE GOVERNOR'S 4%
SEVERANCE TAX PROPOSAL, SAYING
00:02:00IT WOULD HAMPER THE DEVELOPMENT
OF AN EMERGING INDUSTRY.
00:02:01KASICH SAYS HE RESPECTS THOSE
WHO DISAGREE WITH HIM, BUT THAT
00:02:04HE'LL FIGHT FOR IT.
THIS WEEK THE BILL GOT ITS
00:02:07FIRST HEARING BEFORE THE HOUSE
FINANCE COMMITTEE.
00:02:09CHAIR RON AMSTUTZ OF WOOSTER
SAYS THE SEVERANCE TAX/INCOME
00:02:13TAX PLAN WILL NOT BE CONSIDERED
NOW, BUT COULD BE LATER.
00:02:15AND HE SAYS THE GOVERNOR'S
PLANS TO CHANGE THE TAXES ON
00:02:19FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS AND CLOSE
SOME LOOPHOLES WILL BE
00:02:22CONSIDERED IN SEPARATE
LEGISLATION BEFORE ANOTHER
00:02:25COMMITTEE.
THE OHIO AIR NATIONAL GUARD
00:02:30BROUGHT IN A BIPARTISAN STRIKE
FORCE TO LAUNCH THEIR FIGHT TO
00:02:32KEEP AN AIRCRAFT PROGRAM AT A
BASE IN MANSFIELD.
00:02:35THE DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE 2013
FISCAL YEAR BUDGET CUTS THE C-
00:02:4027J PROGRAM, AND COULD COST
OHIO 800 JOBS.
00:02:42THE TOP BRASS OF THE OHIO ARMY
NATIONAL GUARD TRIED OUT THEIR
00:02:48CASE FOR THE C-27J AND INVITED
MEMBERS OF OHIO'S CONGRESSIONAL
00:02:53DELEGATION -- INCLUDING
DEMOCRATIC SENATOR SHERROD
00:02:55BROWN AND REPUBLICAN SENATOR
ROB PORTMAN -- TO TALK ABOUT
00:02:58WHY THEY'RE WORKING IN RARE
BIPARTISAN TANDEM TO KEEP THE
00:03:02CARGO PLANE.
SUPPORTERS OF THE C-27J SAY
00:03:05IT'S SMALLER, CHEAPER AND MORE
FLEXIBLE THAN THE C-130 THAT
00:03:07THE PENTAGON WANTS TO REPLACE
IT WITH.
00:03:10AND THEY NOTE THAT EVERY WING
IN THE COUNTRY THAT FLIES THE C-
00:03:1327J HAS RECEIVED A NEW MISSION
-- EXCEPT THE 179TH AIRLIFT WING
00:03:17IN MANSFIELD, WHICH SUGGEST THE
BASE COULD BE SHUT DOWN IF THE
00:03:22BUDGET CUTS HOLD.
THE CONTROVERSIAL PLAN TO
00:03:27OVERHAUL THE CLEVELAND SCHOOLS
-- WHICH INCLUDES MAKING BIG
00:03:30CHANGES AMONG TEACHERS -- GOT A
SHOW OF BIPARTISAN SUPPORT THIS
00:03:33WEEK.
BUT THE PLAN'S CRITICS SAY THEY
00:03:36SEE IT AS A REPACKAGING OF
SENATE BILL 5, REJECTED BY
00:03:39VOTERS LAST FALL.
CLEVELAND MAYOR FRANK JACKSON
00:03:42SAYS HIS PLAN TO RESHAPE THE
CLEVELAND SCHOOLS IS NOT ABOUT
00:03:45POLITICS -- IT'S ABOUT QUALITY
EDUCATION.
00:03:47>> IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH
WHETHER OR NOT YOU ARE A GOOD
00:03:54DEMOCRAT OR A GOOD REPUBLICAN,
WHETHER YOU SUPPORT UNIONS OR
00:03:58NOT, WHETHER YOU SUPPORT
CHARTERS OR PUBLIC SCHOOL.
00:04:01THIS IS ABOUT HOW WE EDUCATE OUR
CHILDREN.
00:04:04>> JACKSON SAYS THE DISTRICT HAS
BEEN MAKING PROGRESS, BUT IT'S
00:04:08TOO SLOW, AND THE SCHOOLS WILL
SOON NEED TO PLUG A $65 MILLION
00:04:10HOLE.
HIS PLAN INCLUDES SOME IDEAS
00:04:13THAT SOME SEE AS RADICAL.
IT WOULD ALLOW THE SHARING OF
00:04:15LEVY MONEY WITH CHARTER SCHOOLS
THAT ARE SPONSORED BY OR WORK
00:04:18CLOSELY WITH THE DISTRICT.
IT WOULD CREATE A GOVERNING
00:04:21BODY THAT WOULD SET AND MONITOR
STANDARDS WHICH WOULD BE EXEMPT
00:04:24FROM SUNSHINE LAWS REQUIRING
OPEN RECORDS AND OPEN MEETINGS.
00:04:27AND IT WOULD MAKE BIG CHANGES
IN CONTRACTS WITH TEACHERS'
00:04:31UNIONS.
THE DISTRICT COULD EXTEND THE
00:04:34SCHOOL DAY OR THE SCHOOL YEAR
WITHOUT GETTING UNION APPROVAL.
00:04:36NO TENURE WOULD BE OFFERED FOR
NEW TEACHERS, AND CONTRACTS
00:04:40WILL BE LIMITED TO TWO YEARS.
SENIORITY WOULD NO LONGER BE
00:04:44THE KEY FACTOR IN DECIDING
LAYOFFS OR CALLBACKS.
00:04:46AND IF A TEACHER GETS THE
DISTRICT'S LOWEST RATING OF
00:04:51"INEFFECTIVE" TWO YEARS IN A
ROW, THAT TEACHER COULD BE
00:04:54FIRED.
THE PLAN HAS THE STRONG SUPPORT
00:04:56OF GOVERNOR JOHN KASICH AND
OTHER REPUBLICANS.
00:04:58BUT SOME OF THOSE IDEAS BOTHER
REPRESENTATIVE SANDRA WILLIAMS,
00:05:01A DEMOCRAT OF CLEVELAND, WHO
OFFERED QUALIFIED SUPPORT FOR
00:05:04THE PLAN, BUT SAYS SHE HASN'T
AGREED TO CO-SPONSOR THE PLAN
00:05:07IN THE HOUSE.
>> AT THIS TIME, I HAVE NOT
00:05:13ADMITTED TO THAT YET.
HOWEVER, I BELIEVE CHANGE NEEDS
00:05:18TO BE MADE.
I BELIEVE THE MAYOR'S PLAN HAS
00:05:21MERIT.
I AGREE WITH ABOUT 70% OF IT.
00:05:25THERE ARE ONLY A FEW THINGS I DO
NOT AGREE WITH.
00:05:27>> BUT ONE OF THE STATE'S TWO
TEACHERS UNIONS HAS MANY THINGS
00:05:30THAT IT FINDS PROBLEMATIC IN THE
MAYOR'S PLAN.
00:05:32THE OHIO FEDERATION OF TEACHERS
IS VERY WORRIED THAT IF IT'S
00:05:34APPROVED, OTHER SCHOOL
DISTRICTS WILL WANT THE SAME
00:05:36CHANGES AND THAT IT WILL DESTROY
COLLECTIVE BARGAINING RIGHTS OF
00:05:38TEACHERS AROUND THE STATE.
OTHER CRITICS OF THE PLAN --
00:05:41INCLUDING HOUSE MINORITY LEADER
ARMOND BUDISH OF BEACHWOOD IN
00:05:43SUBURBAN CLEVELAND -- SAY IT
AMOUNTS TO A PARTIAL RETREAD OF
00:05:47SENATE BILL 5, THE COLLECTIVE
BARGAINING REFORM LAW THAT WAS
00:05:50SOUNDLY REJECTED BY VOTERS LAST
FALL.
00:05:51JACKSON, WHO SUPPORTED THE
REPEAL OF SENATE BILL 5, SAYS
00:05:56THOSE WHO ARE CONCERNED ABOUT
THE PLAN INCLUDING SOME OF THE
00:05:59IDEAS FROM IT SHOULDN'T BE.
>> I AM OPPOSED TO ANYTHING
00:06:08THAT ELIMINATES COLLECTIVE
BARGAINING, BUT I AM ALSO
00:06:11OPPOSED TO COLLECTIVE BARGAINING
STANDING IN THE WAY OF EDUCATING
00:06:15CHILDREN.
>> JACKSON SAYS IF SOMEONE HAS
00:06:17BETTER IDEAS THAN THE ONES HE'S
COME UP WITH, HE'D LIKE TO HEAR
00:06:19THEM.
MELISSA CROPPER WITH THE OFT
00:06:25SAYS THE CLEVELAND TEACHERS
UNION HAS A PLAN THAT SHE SAYS
00:06:28IMPROVES STUDENT OUTCOMES
WITHOUT TAKING AWAY COLLECTIVE
00:06:30BARGAINING RIGHTS OF TEACHERS.
>> LET US WORK THIS OUT.
00:06:35WE DO NOT NEED -- WE DO NOT NEED
LEGISLATION TO MAKE IT HAPPEN.
00:06:39WE JUST NEED TO BE AT THE SAME
TABLE.
00:06:42IF THEY WANT TO GO THROUGH WITH
SENATE BILL 5 LANGUAGE, WE WILL
00:06:48GO THRU ACTIONS TO STOP IT.
>> BUT JACKSON SAYS THAT HE
00:06:51WON'T ACCEPT ANY PLAN THAT
INVOLVES INCREMENTAL CHANGES --
00:06:53BECAUSE HE SAYS THE COMMUNITY
WON'T BE WILLING TO APPROVE A
00:06:54LEVY REQUEST UNLESS THERE IS
MAJOR CHANGE IN THE CLEVELAND
00:06:56SCHOOLS.
THE CLEVELAND PLAN WAS MENTIONED
00:06:57BY GOVERNOR JOHN KASICH IN HIS
BUDGET UPDATE TWO WEEKS AGO,
00:06:59BUT HE ALSO SAID AT THE TIME
THAT IT WASN'T READY FOR
00:07:01INCLUSION INTO HIS PACKAGE.
IT COULD BE INTRODUCED IN THE
00:07:05NEXT WEEK OR SO.
ONE THING THE CLEVELAND PLAN
00:07:07INCLUDES IS MERIT PAY FOR
TEACHERS -- WHICH IS ALSO
00:07:10INCLUDED IN GOVERNOR KASICH'S
BUDGET APPROVED LAST YEAR.
00:07:12I TALKED RECENTLY WITH STATE
SCHOOL SUPERINTENDENT STAN
00:07:16HEFFNER ABOUT SEVERAL ISSUES
THAT CAME OUT OF THE GOVERNOR'S
00:07:19STATE OF THE STATE SPEECH,
INCLUDING HIS COMMENTS ABOUT
00:07:22MERIT PAY.
>> AND IT DOES NOT MEAN WE
00:07:29SHORTCHANGE OUR TEACHERS.
IF THEY ARE NOT DOING WELL,
00:07:32LET'S HELP THEM.
IF THEY ARE DOING GREAT, LET'S
00:07:35PAY THEM.
>> IT DOESN'T MEAN WE SHORT>>
00:07:38NOW THAT WE'RE A YEAR INTO THIS
TWO YEAR BUDGET THAT INCLUDED
00:07:40THE MERIT PAY PROVISIONS, I
ASKED HEFFNER IF THERE IS A
00:07:42METRIC OR A FORMULA THAT WILL
FIGURE OUT HOW MERIT PAY FOR
00:07:43TEACHERS WILL BE DETERMINED.
>> IN HOUSE BUILD 153, THE
00:07:50BUDGET BILL, THERE ARE
PROVISIONS THAT AFFECT THIS.
00:07:53WE HAD TO REJECT ALL DISTRICTS
BY THE 2013 SCHOOL YEAR HAVE TO
00:07:59ADOPT A TEACHER EVALUATION
POLICY.
00:08:02IT HAS TO FOLLOW THE MODEL SET
BY THE STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION.
00:08:06WHAT THE LAW SAYS IS HALF OF THE
VALUE OF THAT EVALUATION HAS TO
00:08:11BE ROOTED IN OBJECTIVE MEASURES
LIKE TEST SCORES.
00:08:14TEACHERS HAVE TO BE DEMONSTRATED
TO HAVE GIVEN AT LEAST A YEAR'S
00:08:18WORTH OF GROWTH TO STUDENTS.
ONE OF THE CONTROVERSIES ABOUT
00:08:23HOW AMERICA WORKS IS THERE IS
ALWAYS A BELIEVE THERE IS BIAS
00:08:26EITHER IN THE OBSERVER OR THE
PROCESS, OR EVEN WITH THE PERSON
00:08:30BEING OBSERVED.
WHEN YOU HAVE OBJECTIVE DATA
00:08:33THAT COMPLEMENTS THE
OBSERVATIONS AND OTHER
00:08:36INTERACTIONS, THAT TENDS TO GIVE
A GREATER DEGREE OF CREDIBILITY
00:08:40TO THE FINDINGS.
ONCE YOU KNOW WHAT THE FINDINGS
00:08:43ARE, THE LAW ALSO SAYS THAT
SCHOOL BOARDS ARE REQUIRED TO
00:08:47IDENTIFY WHAT A MERIT PAY SYSTEM
CAN LOOK LIKE IN THEIR DISTRICT.
00:08:51THEY HAVE TO HAVE THAT IN PLACE
BY I THINK 2013-14.
00:08:56BUT THEY DO HAVE TO HAVE THAT.
WE HAVE 130-SOME DISTRICTS RIGHT
00:09:01NOW THAT ARE PILOTING WITH
EVALUATION PLANS.
00:09:04AS WE GET LEARNING'S BACK FROM
THOSE EXPERIENCES, WHICH WILL BE
00:09:09ABLE TO CRAFT A MODEL MERIT PAY
PLAN, AS WELL AS LOOK AT
00:09:13ADJUSTMENTS TO THE POLICY.
>> ISN'T THERE THE IDEA THAT
00:09:17WHEN TEACHERS ARE ONLY SEEING
THE KIDS FOR A CERTAIN
00:09:20PERCENTAGE OF THE DAY -- THERE
ARE ALL SORTS OF OTHER
00:09:23CHALLENGES KIDS HAVE TO DEAL
WITH BEYOND THE CLASSROOM.
00:09:26TO REWARD AND PUNISH TEACHERS
FOR WHAT HAPPENS, EVEN IF THEY
00:09:31CAN MEASURE OBJECTIVELY -- THAT
IS CHALLENGING.
00:09:34>> IT IS.
YOU ARE RIGHT TO SAY IT.
00:09:36WE HAVE A LOT OF KIDS WHO ARE
SPECIAL NEEDS CHILDREN, OR
00:09:41CHILDREN WHO HAVE DIFFICULTY
WITH READING.
00:09:42WE HAVE FEDERAL TITLE ONE
PROGRAMS FOR THEM.
00:09:46YOU ARE RIGHT.
THOSE STUDENTS SHARE TEACHERS.
00:09:50HOW TO PARCEL OUT THE EFFECTS OF
EACH OF THOSE CAN BE
00:09:53PROBLEMATIC.
BUT IT IS ONLY IF YOU ARE
00:09:56LOOKING AT ONE YEAR.
IF YOU LOOK AT THE DATA OVER
00:10:00TIME, YOU CONFINED TRENDS.
THE QUESTION IS HOW WE CAN
00:10:05LEARN FROM THE EVALUATION
PROCESS AND BETTER INFORM HOW WE
00:10:09GO ABOUT DOING IT.
BUT CLEARLY, THE MORE TREND DATA
00:10:14WE GET, THE MORE WE CAN
UNDERSTAND WHETHER TEACHERS ARE
00:10:17ABLE TO CONSISTENTLY GET A
YEAR'S WORTH OF GROWTH FROM
00:10:21STUDENTS.
>> TEACHERS, TO GET STUDENTS THE
00:10:23GROWTH THEY NEED -- EVERYBODY
HAS TO BE ON BOARD.
00:10:26FAMILIES, THE COMMUNITY.
>> YES.
00:10:30>> HOW DO YOU GET ALL OF THAT SO
THE TEACHER DOES NOT BEAR THE
00:10:33BRUNT OF OTHER THINGS COMING
INTO PLACE?
00:10:36>> YOU ARE RIGHT TO SAY THERE
ARE SEVERAL FACTORS THAT AFFECT
00:10:40THE CHILD.
BUT WHAT WE DO NOT WANT TO DO
00:10:44IS FOREGO A BETTER EVALUATION
SYSTEM SIMPLY BECAUSE THE
00:10:47TEACHER IS NOT THE ONLY FACTOR.
WHAT WE NEED TO DO IS FIGURE OUT
00:10:51HOW TO FILTER THAT.
I WILL NOT GET INTO ALL THE
00:10:54STATISTICS, BUT THERE ARE WAYS
TO DO THAT.
00:10:56HOWEVER, WE STILL NEED TO HAVE
THAT DATA OVER TIME TO BE ABLE
00:11:01TO RELY ON IT WITH GREATER
CONFIDENCE.
00:11:04YES.
LOTS OF THINGS GET IN THE WAY OF
00:11:07WHAT A CHILD'S LEARNING CAN BE
ABOUT.
00:11:11BUT THERE IS STILL ONE CONSTANT,
AND THAT IS THE TEACHER IN THE
00:11:17CLASSROOM.
THAT IS THE PART WE TRY TO FOCUS
00:11:19ON.
>> BUT TEACHERS ARE WORRIED.
00:11:23I TALKED WITH RANDY FLORA,
DIRECTOR OF EDUCATION POLICY AND
00:11:25COALITION RELATIONS WITH THE
OHIO EDUCATION ASSOCIATION, THE
00:11:27STATE'S LARGEST TEACHERS UNION.
I ASKED HIM TO RESPOND TO THE
00:11:29SUPERINTENDENT'S COMMENTS,
STARTING WITH THE IDEA THAT TEST
00:11:31SCORES WILL BE USED AS OBJECTIVE
MEASURES FOR TEACHER EVALUATION
00:11:34IN THE MERIT PAY SYSTEM.
>> TEST SCORES ARE BEST USED TO
00:11:41MAKE DECISIONS ABOUT WHETHER THE
SYSTEM IS WORKING.
00:11:45TO USE TEST SCORES FOR HIGH-
STAKES DECISIONS FOR STUDENTS OR
00:11:51TEACHERS DOES NOT WORK SO MUCH,
BECAUSE THEY GIVE YOU SUCH A
00:11:55NARROW LOOK AT WHAT IS GOING ON
IN THE DISTRICT.
00:11:58STUDENTS' SCORES ARE NOT GOOD
MEASURES OF HOW WELL TEACHERS
00:12:02ARE TEACHING AND WHAT THEY ARE
DOING.
00:12:04>> THE SUPERINTENDENT WAS SAYING
IT IS IMPORTANT FOR A TEACHER TO
00:12:08PROVIDE A YEAR'S WORTH OF GROWTH
FOR STUDENTS.
00:12:10HOW ELSE CAN YOU MEASURE THAT
YEARS' WORTH OF GROWTH IF YOU DO
00:12:14NOT LOOK AT TESTS?
>> MEASURING STUDENT GROWTH
00:12:19WOULD REQUIRE ASSESSMENTS AT AT
LEAST TWO POINTS IN TIME --
00:12:25EARLY IN THE SCHOOL YEAR AND
TOWARD THE END OF FISCAL YEAR.
00:12:28THAT MEASUREMENT OF ASSESSMENT,
ONCE AGAIN, IS BEST USED FOR
00:12:33DIAGNOSTIC PURPOSES THAT WOULD
ALLOW TEACHERS AND SCHOOL
00:12:36ADMINISTRATORS TO MAKE JUDGMENTS
ABOUT INSTRUCTION.
00:12:39TO USE THAT AS THE MEASURE FOR
TEACHER PERFORMANCE WOULD BE
00:12:43INAPPROPRIATE, BECAUSE A LOT OF
FACTORS AFFECT HOW WELL
00:12:47STUDENTS DO ON ASSESSMENTS,
INCLUDING STUDENT MOBILITY,
00:12:51ESPECIALLY IN SOME SCHOOLS,
WHERE THERE IS A HIGH INDEX OF
00:12:56POVERTY.
STUDENTS ARE IN AND OUT.
00:12:58IT IS HARD TO GET A PRE AND POST
MEASURE ON THOSE STUDENTS.
00:13:02>> THE IDEA THAT THERE ARE SO
MANY FACTORS THAT GO INTO
00:13:06STUDENT PERFORMANCE AND WHAT
GETS A STUDENT FROM POINT A TO
00:13:09POINT B -- THE SUPERINTENDENT
WAS SAYING IF YOU LOOK AT THE
00:13:15DATA OVER TIME, YOU CAN FIND
TRENDS.
00:13:18HE ALSO SAYS YOU DO NOT WANT TO
FORGO A BETTER EVALUATION SYSTEM
00:13:22SOLELY BECAUSE A TEACHER IS NOT
THE SOLE FACTOR.
00:13:24HOW DO YOU RESPOND TO THAT?
>> IN TERMS OF LOOKING AT
00:13:28MEASURES OVER TIME, WE WOULD
AGREE.
00:13:30IT WOULD TAKE AT LEAST THREE
YEARS, ALTHOUGH THREE YEARS IS
00:13:35MINIMAL, FOR SOME OF THE REASONS
I INDICATED EARLIER.
00:13:39STUDENT MOBILITY, OTHER FACTORS
THAT AFFECT STUDENTS, WHETHER
00:13:43THE SCORES FOR THE STUDENTS THAT
ARE BEING USED TO MEASURE A
00:13:49TEACHER'S PERFORMANCE ACTUALLY
ARE CONNECTED -- A LINK TO WHAT
00:13:52THAT TEACHER DOES.
WE THINK IT IS PROBABLY BEST
00:13:59THAT IF A LOCAL ASSOCIATION IS
INTERESTED IN ALTERNATIVES TO
00:14:02THE CURRENT SALARY SCHEDULE THAT
THEY LOOK AT THOSE ALTERNATIVES
00:14:06BASED ON WHAT THEIR NEEDS ARE,
WHAT THE ASPIRATIONS ARE THAT
00:14:11THEY HAVE FOR THEIR TEACHERS --
THAT THEY LOOK AT WHAT TEACHERS
00:14:16DO, USING THE STANDARDS FOR
EFFECTIVE TEACHING WHICH WERE
00:14:19ADOPTED BY THE STATE BOARD AFTER
RECOMMENDATIONS THAT WERE MADE
00:14:22BY THE EDUCATORS STANDARDS
BOARD.
00:14:24THOSE MEASURES OF WHAT TEACHERS
DO, I THINK, ARE PROBABLY MORE
00:14:30RELIABLE THAN USING STUDENT TEST
SCORES TO MAKE JUDGMENTS ABOUT
00:14:34TEACHERS' PERFORMANCE.
>> BUT THE IDEA OF MERIT PAY --
00:14:40IS THERE A FEELING OF MISTRUST
ON THE PART OF TEACHERS?
00:14:43WE JUST WENT THROUGH THE SENATE
BILL 5 BATTLE.
00:14:46IS THERE CONCERN FROM TEACHERS
THEY WILL NOT GET TREATED
00:14:50FAIRLY?
>> I THINK YES.
00:14:52AMONG SOME TEACHERS, THERE IS
THAT TRUST ISSUE.
00:14:56THE BIGGER ISSUE IS WHETHER THE
DATA WITH WHICH YOU ARE
00:15:00EVALUATING TEACHERS, AND
POSSIBLY THE DATA YOU ARE USING
00:15:04TO MAKE A DETERMINATION OF
COMPENSATION -- IF THE SCHOOL
00:15:08DISTRICT DID GO WITH A MERIT PAY
OR PERFORMANCE PAY PLAN, THERE
00:15:12IS CONCERN ABOUT WHETHER THOSE
DATA ARE TRULY VALID OR
00:15:16MEASURING TEACHERS'
PERFORMANCE, AND ARE THE
00:15:22RELIABLE OVER TIME.
THAT IS WHERE THE REAL CONCERN
00:15:24IS.
THE SINGLE SALARY SCHEDULE, THE
00:15:30HISTORY OF IT IS THAT IT WAS PUT
INTO EFFECT TO ADDRESS THE ISSUE
00:15:34OF FAIRNESS.
THERE WERE BIASES IN THE WAY
00:15:37TEACHERS WERE EVALUATED AND
COMPENSATED YEARS AGO.
00:15:41IT WAS BASED ON POLITICS,
GENDER, RACE, OR WHO HAD THE
00:15:47MOST CRITICAL COMMENTS.
>> I THINK THERE IS A SUSPICION
00:15:53TO THAT MAYBE TEACHERS ARE
WORRIED ABOUT THIS BECAUSE THEY
00:15:57ARE TRYING TO PROTECT TEACHERS
WHO ARE NOT DOING A GREAT JOB,
00:16:01THAT THE TEACHERS' UNION IS
PROTECTING TEACHERS WHO MAY NOT
00:16:05BE MEETING STANDARDS THAT NEED
TO BE MET.
00:16:06IS THERE ANY OF THAT GOING ON?
>> I THINK ALL TEACHERS, OR AT
00:16:12LEAST THE VAST MAJORITY OF
TEACHERS, WHAT TEACHERS -- WANT
00:16:18STUDENTS TO BE SUCCESSFUL.
AND THEY WANT TO BE HELD
00:16:22ACCOUNTABLE.
BUT WE CANNOT DO IT ALL AND WE
00:16:24CANNOT DO IT ALONE AS TEACHERS.
WE NEED TO DEPEND ON OTHERS IN
00:16:29THE SCHOOL COMMUNITY TO BE
ACCOUNTABLE.
00:16:31OUR KIDS ABLE TO COME TO SCHOOL
READY AND ABLE TO LEARN?
00:16:34ARE WE ABLE TO PROVIDE THE
CONDITIONS BY WHICH THEY CAN
00:16:40LEARN?
WHAT ABOUT LOCAL AND STATE
00:16:42REVENUE?
IS THAT ADEQUATE?
00:16:44I THINK OUR MEMBERS WANT TO BE
ACCOUNTABLE.
00:16:47THE VAST MAJORITY OF OUR MEMBERS
DO NOT WANT TO BE TEACHING WITH
00:16:52FOLKS WHO ARE STRUGGLING UNLESS
THOSE WHO ARE STRUGGLING ARE
00:16:55WORKING TO IMPROVE.
THIS IS WHY WE ACTUALLY ARE
00:17:00SUPPORTING THE OHIO TEACHER
EVALUATION SYSTEM FRAMEWORK THAT
00:17:03WAS RECENTLY ADOPTED BY THE
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION.
00:17:06WE KNOW OUR MEMBERS DO NOT MIND
BEING EVALUATED IF THEY THINK
00:17:11THE EVALUATIONS ARE FAIR, THEY
HAVE A VOICE IN THE PROCESS, AND
00:17:15THAT THE EVALUATIONS PROVIDE
OPPORTUNITIES FOR THOSE WHO ARE
00:17:19STRUGGLING TO CORRECT THOSE
DEFICIENCIES AND TO GROW.
00:17:22AND ALSO, FOR THOSE WHO ARE
SUCCESSFUL, WHO WOULD LIKE THE
00:17:28EVALUATION SYSTEMS TO GIVE THEM
INFORMATION TO IMPROVE.
00:17:31DOES THAT MEAN WE WANT TO USE
EVALUATION SYSTEMS TO MAKE
00:17:36DETERMINATIONS ABOUT PAY?
NOT UNLESS THE LOCAL ASSOCIATION
00:17:40WANTS TO DO THAT IN CONJUNCTION
WITH THE SCHOOL DISTRICT AND IS
00:17:44WILLING TO BARGAIN THAT.
WE DO NOT BELIEVE WE SHOULD
00:17:47HAVE ONE SIZE FITS ALL
EVALUATION SYSTEMS, NOR DO WE
00:17:50BELIEVE WE SHOULD HAVE ONE SIZE
FITS ALL COMPENSATION SYSTEMS.
00:17:53>>
FLORA SAYS TEACHERS UNION
00:17:57LOCALS ARE WORKING WITH THE 130
DISTRICTS THAT ARE PILOTING THE
00:17:59EVALUATION PLAN.
I ALSO ASKED HIM ABOUT SOME
00:18:01OTHER IDEAS IN THE GOVERNOR'S
PROPOSAL -- THE THIRD GRADE
00:18:02READING GUARANTEE, WHICH SAYS
KIDS WHO CAN'T READ AT THE
00:18:04THIRD GRADE LEVEL WON'T GO ON TO
FOURTH GRADE, THE NEW LETTER-
00:18:07GRADE SYSTEM FOR RATING SCHOOLS,
AND CLEVELAND MAYOR FRANK
00:18:10JACKSON'S PLAN.
>> WE DO NOT REALLY HAVE
00:18:17SPECIFIC LANGUAGE ON THE THIRD
GRADE GUARANTEE.
00:18:20THERE IS A LITTLE MORE LANGUAGE
AROUND THE GRADING SYSTEM.
00:18:23WE NEED TO LOOK AT THAT.
WE THINK THE WAIVER FROM THE
00:18:29NOTRE LEFT BEHIND PLAN -- THE NO
CHILD LEFT BEHIND PLAN IS BETTER
00:18:37THAN WHAT WAS THERE BEFORE, BUT
WE HAVE CONCERNS ABOUT THAT AS
00:18:40WELL.
AND WE HAVE SPECIFIC CONCERNS
00:18:43ABOUT THE CLEVELAND PLAN, BUT WE
HAVE TO SEE HOW THAT PLAYS OUT.
00:18:46>> ONE THING THAT WASN'T IN THE
GOVERNOR'S BUDGET UPDATE WAS A
00:18:49NEW SCHOOL FUNDING FORMULA.
IT'S THOUGHT THAT A PROPOSAL
00:18:50COULD COME OUT LATER THIS YEAR,
THOUGH FOR MONTHS THERE'S BEEN
00:18:52TALK THAT A FORMULA WOULD COME
OUT SOON.
00:18:53ONE VOCAL CRITIC OF THE WAY THE
KASICH ADMINISTRATION FUNDED
00:18:57SCHOOLS IN THE CURRENT BUDGET
IS BILL PHILLIS OF THE
00:19:01COALITION FOR EQUITY AND
ADEQUACY OF SCHOOL FUNDING.
00:19:03PHILLIS LED THE LANDMARK
DEROLPH LAWSUIT AGAINST THE
00:19:06STATE OVER THE WAY PUBLIC
EDUCATION IS PAID FOR BACK IN
00:19:10THE MID 90'S, WHICH RESULTED IN
FOUR RULINGS THAT THE WAY OHIO
00:19:13PAID FOR PUBLIC SCHOOLS IS
UNCONSTITUTIONAL BECAUSE OF AN
00:19:16OVER-RELIANCE ON PROPERTY TAXES.
I ASKED PHILLIS ABOUT HIS
00:19:22CONCERNS ABOUT STATE BUDGET
CUTS TO SCHOOLS IN THE CURRENT
00:19:24BUDGET AND WHAT MIGHT BE AHEAD.
I AM WONDERING.
00:19:32DO YOU FEEL WE ARE ON THE EDGE
OF ANOTHER DEROLPH CASE?
00:19:36THAT WAS ABOUT THE RELIANCE ON
PROPERTY TAXES, AND IT SEEMS
00:19:43SOME PEOPLE ARE SAYING WE ARE
MOVING BACK TOWARD THAT.
00:19:45>> WHEN YOU TAKE INTO
CONSIDERATION THE LOSS OF
00:19:48FEDERAL MONEY, AND THAT IS HUGE,
BUT WE WILL SET THAT ASIDE --
00:19:53WHEN YOU TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION
THAT THE STATE ACCELERATED THE
00:20:00WHOLE MATTER OF PERSONAL
TANGIBLE PROPERTY REIMBURSEMENT
00:20:06WHEN THEY ACCELERATED THE
DECREASE IN THAT REIMBURSEMENT
00:20:10FORMULA -- WHEN YOU TAKE INTO
CONSIDERATION THAT EVEN THE
00:20:16STATE TAX PORTION OF THE
EDUCATION BUDGET DID NOT KEEP
00:20:20UP WITH THE TOTAL TAX BUDGET OF
THE STATE IN TERMS OF PERCENTAGE
00:20:26-- IN OTHER WORDS, EDUCATION IS
A LOWER PRIORITY.
00:20:29EDUCATION FUNDING IS A LOWER
PRIORITY.
00:20:32ANYWAY YOU LOOK AT IT, EDUCATION
FUNDING HAS HAD OR IS HAVING --
00:20:39HAS BEEN GIVEN A LOWER PRIORITY
IN THIS BUDGET THAN PREVIOUS
00:20:43BUDGETS.
THAT MEANS THAT MORE OF THE
00:20:46BURDEN IS GOING TO FALL ON THE
PROPERTY TAX.
00:20:48THAT MEANS THAT THE STATE'S
SCHOOL DISTRICTS, UNLESS THEY
00:20:57CUT THE HEART OUT OF THEIR
EDUCATION PROGRAMS, ARE EITHER
00:21:00GOING TO HAVE TO GO BACK TO THE
TAXPAYERS LOCALLY TO GET
00:21:06ADDITIONAL RESOURCES OR MAKE
EVEN DEEPER CUTS.
00:21:09THE QUESTION THEN BEING WILL
ANYONE LITIGATE THIS MATTER.
00:21:15WHEN ONE LOOKS AT THE POLITICS
OF OHIO, AND THE FACT THAT
00:21:23FRANKLY ONE PARTY CONTROLS THE
HOUSE, THE SENATE, THE
00:21:27GOVERNOR'S OFFICE, AND THE
SUPREME COURT --
00:21:28>> ALL BUT ONE MEMBER OF THE
SUPREME COURT.
00:21:31>> ONE WOULD REALISTICALLY HAVE
TO THINK LONG AND HARD BEFORE
00:21:36THEY WENT INTO LITIGATION.
RIGHT NOW, PUBLIC SCHOOL
00:21:41DISTRICTS ARE AT THE TOTAL
MERCY OF THE GOVERNOR AND
00:21:46LEGISLATURE.
I MEAN, THE COURT IS NOT EVEN A
00:21:49FACTOR, GIVEN THE MAKEUP OF THE
COURT.
00:21:52>> THE GOVERNOR HAS ALSO SAID HE
WANTS MORE DOLLARS IN THE
00:21:56CLASSROOM AND HE IS COMMITTED TO
THAT.
00:21:58DO YOU BELIEVE HIM?
>> I BELIEVE THE GOVERNOR WANTS
00:22:02MORE DOLLARS IN THE CLASSROOM.
BUT THEN WE HAVE TO ASK THE
00:22:08QUESTION WHAT WILL BE CUT OUT TO
GET MORE DOLLARS IN THE
00:22:14CLASSROOM.
WILL WE CUT TRANSPORTATION?
00:22:17WILL WE CUT FOOD SERVICE?
WILL WE CUT COUNSELING SERVICES?
00:22:21WE CUT THOSE SAFETY NETS
SERVICES, PARTICULARLY FOR THE
00:22:27LOW INCOME, THE DISADVANTAGED,
THE CHILDREN WITH DISABILITIES?
00:22:33SCHOOL DISTRICTS DO NOT JUST
SPEND MONEY LIKE THE PROVERBIAL
00:22:41DRUNKEN SAILOR.
MOST SCHOOL DISTRICTS -- IN
00:22:47FACT, NEARLY EVERY SCHOOL
DISTRICT HAS A WHOLESOME
00:22:50MISSION.
THAT MISSION IS DEDICATED TO THE
00:22:55DEVELOPMENT OF BOYS AND GIRLS
AND THE EDUCATIONAL ACHIEVEMENT
00:22:59OF BOYS AND GIRLS, DEDICATED TO
MAKING BOYS AND GIRLS, AS THEY
00:23:03MOVE THROUGH THE SYSTEM, BECOME
GOOD CITIZENS OF THIS COUNTRY
00:23:07AND THIS STATE.
IN ORDER TO ACCOMPLISH THAT, ONE
00:23:13NEEDS A WHOLE ARRAY OF SERVICES
AND EDUCATIONAL PROGRAMS.
00:23:18>> BUT SOME PEOPLE SAY THESE
PROGRAMS COST TOO MUCH MONEY,
00:23:23THAT WE ARE SPENDING MORE MONEY
ON PROGRAMS THAT DO NOT ACTUALLY
00:23:26TEACH KIDS AND HELP KIDS LEARN.
>> AND THAT GOES BACK TO OUR
00:23:31DEFINITION OF LEARNING.
LEARNING MATH AND LANGUAGE ARTS
00:23:37AND SCIENCE AND SO ON -- THOSE
ARE ALL IMPORTANT
00:23:42CONSIDERATIONS.
HOWEVER, IT IS IMPORTANT THAT
00:23:45YOUNG PEOPLE LEARN TO BE GOOD
CITIZENS.
00:23:47IT IS IMPORTANT THAT THEY
UNDERSTAND THE CULTURE, THAT
00:23:52THEY HAVE IT REJECT AN
APPRECIATION OF ART AND MUSIC.
00:23:54-- THAT THEY HAVE AN
APPRECIATION OF ART AND MUSIC.
00:23:59IN THIS MOVEMENT TO MOVE MONEY
INTO THE CLASSROOMS, SOME OF
00:24:03THESE OTHER IMPORTANT THINGS
LIKE ART, MUSIC AND HIS DEAD --
00:24:08AND PHYS ED, THE CULTURAL
THINGS, LEARNING TO COOPERATE,
00:24:15LEARNING COLLEGIALITY, LEARNING
TO BE GOOD CITIZENS -- SOME OF
00:24:21THE FALLS BY THE WAYSIDE.
IT IS FINE TO TALK ABOUT MONEY
00:24:24GOING TO THE CLASSROOM, BUT WHAT
ABOUT HAVING SOME MONEY GOING
00:24:29INTO FOREIGN LANGUAGE IN THE
PRIMARY GRADES, THE MIDDLE
00:24:33SCHOOL GRADES, AND THE HIGH
SCHOOL GRADES?
00:24:35IS THAT IMPORTANT?
TO ME IT IS VERY IMPORTANT IF WE
00:24:39ARE GOING TO HAVE YOUNG PEOPLE
THAT ARE GOING TO BE ABLE TO
00:24:43COMPETE IN THE INTERNATIONAL
MARKETPLACE.
00:24:45>> ANOTHER PROPOSAL RELATED TO
EDUCATION IN THE GOVERNOR'S PLAN
00:24:48IS THE PROPOSAL TO MERGE THE
SCHOOL FACILITIES COMMISSION,
00:24:49WHICH MANAGES THE RENOVATION AND
CONSTRUCTION OF SCHOOLS, WITH
00:24:52THE STATE ARCHITECT'S OFFICE --
TO HAVE ONE AGENCY THAT MANAGES
00:24:56ALL NON-TRANSPORTATION BUILDING.
PHILLIS DESCRIBES THAT AS A
00:25:00"COLOSSAL MISTAKE" BECAUSE OF
THE NEED TO COMPLY WITH
00:25:03EDUCATIONAL ADEQUACY STANDARDS
THAT GO BEYOND TYPICAL STATE
00:25:07BUILDING STANDARDS, WHICH HE
SAYS MAKES SCHOOL CONSTRUCTION
00:25:11A "UNIQUE ENTERPRISE."
AND THAT'S IT FOR THIS WEEK.
00:25:16FOR MY COLLEAGUES AT OHIO PUBLIC
RADIO AND TELEVISION, THANKS FOR
00:25:18WATCHING.
IF YOU'D LIKE TO ASK QUESTIONS,
00:25:21MAKE COMMENTS, OR WATCH THIS
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00:25:23EPISODES, PLEASE VISIT OUR
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00:25:28AND PLEASE JOIN US AGAIN NEXT
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Note : Transcripts are compiled from uncorrected captions