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00:00:01>> SUPPORT FOR THE STATEWIDE
BROADCAST OF "THE STATE OF
00:00:05OHIO" COMES FROM LAW OFFICES OF
PORTER, WRIGHT, MORRIS AND
00:00:08ARTHUR LLP.
HELPING BUSINESSES AND
00:00:09INDIVIDUALS SOLVE COMPLEX LEGAL
PROBLEMS THROUGHOUT OHIO,
00:00:11ACROSS THE COUNTRY AND AROUND
THE WORLD -- ON THE WEB AT
00:00:12PORTERWRIGHT.COM.
AND FROM THE OHIO EDUCATION
00:00:19ASSOCIATION, REPRESENTING
121,000 TEACHERS, SUPPORT
00:00:20PROFESSIONALS AND HIGHER
EDUCATION FACULTY COMMITTED TO
00:00:22THE SUCCESS OF EVERY CHILD,
ONLINE AT OHEA.ORG.
00:00:30>> LAWMAKERS ARE QUICKLY
WORKING THROUGH LEGISLATION
00:00:33BEFORE IT EXPIRES AT THE END OF
THE YEAR.
00:00:34ONE OF THOSE MEASURES IS A BILL
TO CHANGE THE SYSTEM BY WHICH
00:00:38CITIES COLLECT INCOME TAX IN
OHIO.
00:00:40BUT THIS COMPLICATED BILL HAS
AS MANY SUPPORTERS AS
00:00:43DETRACTORS, AND FOR A VARIETY
OF REASONS.
00:00:45WE'LL HEAR SOME OF THEM THIS
WEEK IN "THE STATE OF OHIO."
00:00:57>> LAME DUCK HAS BEEN MOVING
ALONG QUICKLY.
00:01:00THE SENATE PASSED A BILL
ESSENTIALLY BANNING TRAFFIC
00:01:02CAMERAS BY REQUIRING THAT A
POLICE OFFICER BE POSTED AT
00:01:05EACH CAMERA LOCATION.
THE HOUSE VOTED ALONG PARTY
00:01:08LINES ON A CONTROVERSIAL BILL
THAT PROTECTS THE NAMES OF THE
00:01:11MAKERS OF EXECUTION DRUGS IF
THEY ASK FOR THAT SHIELD.
00:01:14BUT LAWMAKERS FROM BOTH PARTIES
SUPPORTED A HUGE BILL IN THE
00:01:18HOUSE THAT WAS PART OF THE
GOVERNOR'S BIG BUDGET UPDATE.
00:01:21THIS ONE WENT THROUGH THE HOUSE
AGRICULTURE COMMITTEE AND SEEKS
00:01:24TO DEAL WITH BOTH THE STATE'S
TOXIC ALGAE PROBLEM AND WITH
00:01:28THE FUTURE OF BASIC TELEPHONE
SERVICE.
00:01:31AND THE SENATE CONFIRMED TWO
APPOINTEES OF JOHN KASICH.
00:01:34CRAIG BUTLER TO HEAD THE STATE
E.P.A. AND RICK HODGES TO LEAD
00:01:37THE OHIO DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH,
BOTH IN VOTES MOSTLY ALONG
00:01:41PARTY LINES.
HOUSE DEMOCRATS HAVE ELECTED
00:01:44DAYTON REPRESENTIVE FRED
STRAHORN AS THEIR NEXT LEAGUER,
00:01:48DAVID LELESS LAND OF COLUMBUS
HAD BEEN CONSIDERED A CANDIDATE
00:01:51BUT DROPPED OUT BEFORE THE
FINAL VOTE.
00:01:54NICHOLAS CELEBREZZE WAS CHOSEN
AS ASSISTANT DEMOCRATIC LEADER.
00:01:58THE LIST OF DEMOCRATS SAYING
THEY WANT TO BE STATE PARTY
00:02:01CHAIR IS GROWING LONGER.
THE GROUP NOW INCLUDES DAVID
00:02:04PEPPER AND NINA TURNER WHO LOST
THEIR ELECTION BIDS THIS MONTH
00:02:09AND JANET CARSON ALONG WITH NEW
NAMES, SHAREN NEUHARDT, THE
00:02:14RUNNINGMATE OF FAILED CANDIDATE
ED FITZGERALD, AND TERM LIMITED
00:02:19REPRESENTIVE BOB HAGAN OF
YOUNGSTOWN.
00:02:21HAGAN ALONGSIDE REPUBLICAN
REPRESENTIVE LYNN WACHTMANN
00:02:24WILL BE A GUEST ON THIS SHOW IN
TWO WEEKS.
00:02:26OF THE SIX OHIO GOVERNORS WHO
SERVED MORE THAN ONE TERM, ONE
00:02:30DEFINITELY STANDS OUT -- JAMES
A. RHODES.
00:02:33A LOT OF BOOKS HAVE BEEN
WRITTEN ABOUT HIS FOUR
00:02:36FOUR-YEAR TERMS AS GOVERNOR,
BUT THERE'S STILL A LOT THAT
00:02:38ISN'T KNOWN ABOUT HIM.
THIS NEW BOOK, "JAMES A.
00:02:42RHODES: OHIO COLOSSUS," TRACKS
THE RISE OF RHODES FROM HIS
00:02:44MODEST UPBRINGING IN JACKSON
COUNTY TO HIS ATHLETIC
00:02:48ACCOMPLISHMENTS TO HIS LONG
POLITICAL CAREER, BEGINNING ON
00:02:51THE COLUMBUS SCHOOL BOARD AND
ENDING AS JUST ONE OF SIX
00:02:54GOVERNORS ANYWHERE IN THE U.S.
WHO SERVED FOUR FOUR-YEAR
00:02:57TERMS.
ONE OF THE BOOK'S THREE
00:02:59CO-AUTHORS IS LE LEONARD, A
LONGTIME MEMBER OF THE
00:03:02STATEHOUSE PRESS CORPS WHO
REPORTED FOR U.P.I. AND "THE
00:03:05COLUMBUS DISPATCH" UNTIL HE
RETIRED A FEW YEARS AGO.
00:03:09I TALKED WITH HIM ABOUT HIS
BOOK.
00:03:12LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT THAT
TITLE, OHIO COLOSSUS.
00:03:14THAT'S KIND OF A BIG DEAL WHEN
YOU CONSIDER OHIO HAS HAD
00:03:19SEVERAL PRESIDENTS AND GRANT
AND EVEN IN MODERN HISTORY.
00:03:24TO CALL HIM OHIO COLOSSUS IS
KIND OF A BIG DEAL.
00:03:27>> ONE OF THE CO-AUTHORS HAD
THAT IDEA, AND HE BASED IT ON
00:03:31THE COLOSSUS OF RHODES, THAT IS
THE STATUE ON THE ISLAND OF
00:03:38RHODES WHICH WAS -- ONE OF THE
SEVEN WONDERS OF THE AIN
00:03:41GENTLEMAN WORLD, AND HE THOUGHT
THAT IT WAS SORT OF A PUN.
00:03:44COLOSSUS OF RHODES.
AND BUT RHODES REALLY WAS A
00:03:49COLOSSUS IN THE STATE OF OHIO.
HE DOMINATED.
00:03:51HE DOMINATED THE POLITICAL
LANDSCAPE AND HE, AS YOU SO
00:03:58WELL POINTED OUT, HE WAS ONE OF
A KIND AS FAR AS LONGEVITY.
00:04:03>> NOW, WHEN YOU SAY PUNS WITH
REGARD TO RHODES, THERE'S
00:04:07ANOTHER ONE THAT COMES TO MIND,
RHODES SCHOLAR AND WHAT'S WHAT
00:04:11THE FORMER GOVERNOR WHO SERVED
AS THE LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR AT
00:04:14ONE POINT WHEN WE WERE STILL
ELECTING THEM SEPARATELY, HE
00:04:18CALLED HIMSELF A RHODES
SCHOLAR.
00:04:22HE WAS NOT ONLY AN ACTUAL
RHODES SCAL LAR BUT A SCAL LAR
00:04:28OF RHODES' WORK.
>> OUR IDEA WAS THAT WE THOUGHT
00:04:33RHODES WAS NOT IDEOLOGICALLY
PURE AND -- AND HE HAD TO WORK
00:04:40WITH DEMOCRATS AND HE WANTED TO
WORK WITH DEMOCRATS.
00:04:43AND SO WE THOUGHT IT ONLY
FITTING THAT WE HAVE A DEMOCRAT
00:04:46AND A REPUBLICAN TO DO THE
FORWARD, SO WE'D GET SOME
00:04:50BALANCE.
DICK CELESTE, AS IT TURNS OUT,
00:04:53WAS A RHODES SCHOLAR BECAUSE HE
LEARNED SO MUCH FROM RHODES,
00:04:57AND HE SAYS THAT IN THE
FORWARD.
00:05:00HE -- HE WENT TO SCHOOL IN
POLITICS ON RHODES.
00:05:04HE LOST TO HIM.
AND THEN HE DEFEATED HIM.
00:05:09BUT HE ADMIRED RHODES IN A WAY
THAT WE DIDN'T PICK UP ON WHEN
00:05:14WE WERE COVERING HIM.
AND LATER ON, FORMER GOVERNOR
00:05:18CELESTE AND FORMER GOVERNOR
RHODES HAD BOXES IN THE PRESS
00:05:23BOX AT OHIO STADIUM THAT WERE
RIGHT NEAR EACH OTHER, AND THEY
00:05:28USED TO AT THE FOOTBALL GAMES
DURING HALFTIME AND IDLE
00:05:31PERIODS, THEY WOULD CONVERSE.
AND THEY REALLY GOT TO LIKE
00:05:35EACH OTHER, TO THE POINT WHERE
CELESTE SAYS IN THE BOOK, AND
00:05:40I'M NOT SURE WHETHER I BELIEVE
THIS OR NOT, THAT RHODES SAID,
00:05:46YOU OUGHT TO RUN AGAIN.
AND THAT WAS WHEN VOINOVICH WAS
00:05:49GOVERNOR.
AND HE SAYS, I'LL HELP YOU.
00:05:52AND TO THINK THAT JIM RHODES
WOULD HELP DICK CELESTE, WHOM
00:05:58HE SLAMMED TIME AND AGAIN
DURING THE CAMPAIGN THAT THEY
00:06:02HAD AGAINST EACH OTHER, TO
THINK THAT HE WOULD HELP HIM
00:06:05AGAINST GEORGE VOINOVICH, WHO
WAS RHODES' RUNNINGMATE, IT
00:06:10JUST BOGGLES THE MIND.
BUT THAT'S THE WAY JIM RHODES
00:06:14WAS.
HE WOULD PUSSZ EL YOU.
00:06:16>> WE'LL BRING YOU MORE OF THAT
INTERVIEW WITH LEE LEONARD NEXT
00:06:20WEEK.
IT'S AN IDEA THAT'S BEEN KICKED
00:06:21AROUND HERE AT THE STATEHOUSE
FOR MORE THAN FOUR YEARS, AND
00:06:24HAS BEEN INTRODUCED IN TWO
GENERAL ASSEMBLIES.
00:06:26A PLAN TO OVERHAUL THE STATE'S
MUE THINKS CAL INCOME TAX
00:06:30SYSTEM.
OHIO IS ONE OF JUST 10 STATES
00:06:32THAT HAS A MUNICIPAL INCOME TAX
SYSTEM, AND IT'S THE ONLY ONE
00:06:37WHERE LOCAL GOVERNMENTS CAN
CREATE THEIR OWN DEFINITIONS OF
00:06:40INCOME AND SET RULES AND
REGULATIONS ON IT.
00:06:42AND CONSIDERING THERE ARE
AROUND 600 MUNICIPALITIES IN
00:06:46OHIO, THAT MEANS AN INDIVIDUAL
BUSINESS WORKING IN JUST A FEW
00:06:48OF THEM COULD FACE A LOT OF
PAPERWORK.
00:06:51CRITICS SAY OHIO'S EXISTING
MUNICIPAL INCOME TAX SYSTEM IS
00:06:56NEEDLESSLY COMPLICATED,
PRESERVES LOOPHOLES AND IS A
00:06:58DETERRENT TO ATTRACTING
BUSINESSES TO THE STATE.
00:07:01SUPPORTERS OF REFORM SAY THEY
WANTED TO COME UP WITH A
00:07:03UNIFORM WAY TO COLLECT
MUNICIPAL INCOME TAXES THAT
00:07:06CUTS DOWN ON THE WORKLOAD AND
COSTS FOR BUSINESSES IN
00:07:10MULTIPLE COMMUNITIES, AND THAT
IT INTENDS TO BE BOTH REVENUE
00:07:13NEUTRAL AND BUSINESS FRIENDLY.
BUT THIS FIX HAS BEEN HOTLY
00:07:16DEBATED.
OPPONENTS OF THE REFORM BILL
00:07:18THAT'S NOW IN THE SENATE SAY
THAT THOUGH THIS BILL HAS BEEN
00:07:20FOUR YEARS IN THE MAKING, IT IS
NOT A COMPROMISE, AND THAT IT
00:07:23COULD MEAN A SIGNIFICANT LOSS
OF REVENUE TO SOME COMMUNITIES.
00:07:27WHILE ALSO TAKING AWAY LOCAL
CONTROL AND GIVING IT OVER TO
00:07:30THE STATE.
HERE TO TALK ABOUT THE CURRENT
00:07:32PLAN TO CHANGE THE MUNICIPAL
NKS TACK SYSTEM IN OHIO ARE TWO
00:07:37EXPERTS WITH VERY DIFFERENT
VIEWS.
00:07:38GREG LAWSON IS WITH THE BUCKEYE
INSTITUTE WHICH CALLS ITSELF A
00:07:42FREE MARKET THINK THANK, HE
SUPPORTS THE IDEA OF REFORM.
00:07:47KENT SCARRETT REPRESENTS 600
OHIO CITIES AND VILLAGES ACROSS
00:07:50THE STATE.
WE CAN'T GET INTO EVERY ISSUE
00:07:53HERE BECAUSE THERE ARE TOO
MANY.
00:07:54LET'S GO FOR A FEW BIG ONES
HERE.
00:07:56LET'S START WITH THE IDEA OF
UNIFORMITY.
00:07:58KENT, THERE HAVE BEEN SEVERAL
STORIES BROUGHT OUT ABOUT
00:08:01BUSINESSES NEEDING TO FILE HUGE
STACKS OF PAPERWORK AND PAY
00:08:04ACCOUNTANTS AND DO ALL THIS
STUFF TO MEET THIS COMPLEX CODE
00:08:07HERE.
SO WHY NOT MAKE ONE UNIFORM
00:08:09FORM THAT WORKS FOR EVERYBODY?
>> WELL, YOU KNOW, UNIFORMITY
00:08:12IS AN IMPORTANT GOAL FOR THE
MUNICIPAL LEAGUE AND OUR
00:08:16MEMBERS THAT HAVE AN INCOME TAX
RIGHT NOW.
00:08:20WE ARE CONCERNED.
ONE OF THE ISSUES WE'VE
00:08:22ADDRESSED WHEN TALKING ABOUT
REFORM ISSUES IS THE LARGE
00:08:25AMOUNT OF FILINGS THAT SOME
BUSINESSES EXPERIENCE.
00:08:28AND THERE'S AN ISSUE IN THE
BILL THAT REFORMS THAT, THAT WE
00:08:33SUPPORT.
WE HAVE LANGUAGE IN THERE TO
00:08:34DEFINE A DAY THAT WILL BRING
DOWN THOSE FILINGS.
00:08:37SO WE HAVE REALLY MADE IT A
MISSION OF OURS ESPECIALLY FOR
00:08:40SMALL BUSINESSES TO ADDRESS
THOSE CHALLENGES THAT THEY
00:08:43HAVE, BUT IT'S IMPORTANT TO
UNDERSTAND THAT WE ARE ALL FOR
00:08:46THE UNIFORMITY ISSUES AND WE
AGREE WITH THOSE UNIFORMITY
00:08:48ISSUES.
IT'S THE REFORM AREAS AND HOW
00:08:51FAR THEY GO THAT NEED FURTHER
DISCUSSION AND TWEAKING BEFORE
00:08:54THEY'RE ROLLED OUT AND APPLIED.
>> LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT ONE OF
00:08:57THOSE, GREG.
YOU SUPPORT STANDARDIZING TAX
00:09:02CREDITS ACROSS THE BOARD.
WON'T THAT HURT SOME
00:09:06COMMUNITIES THAT USE DIFFERENT
TAX CREDITS OR SOME THAT DON'T
00:09:08DO THEM AT ALL?
>> IN TERMS OF WHAT I MEAN
00:09:13REVENUE REDUCTIONS N. SOME
CASES THERE'S NO QUESTION THAT
00:09:15IT WILL.
BUT WE HAVE TO LOOK AT THIS IN
00:09:19A HOLISTIC WAY.
WE'RE EVEN LOOKING AT IT BEYOND
00:09:22JUST THE UNIFORMITY BUT IN A
REFORM PERSPECTIVE.
00:09:25AND WE'RE LOOKING AT WHAT THAT
MEANS FOR OHIO GOING FORWARD
00:09:28FROM AN ECONOMIC STANDPOINT AND
REALLY LOOKING AT IN PARTICULAR
00:09:30ALL BUSINESSES, BUT IN
PARTICULAR SMALL BUSINESSES.
00:09:34AND FAIRNESS.
I MEAN, WE LOOK AT TAX POLICY
00:09:36AND WHAT IS GOOD TAX POLICY?
WE THINK THAT SIMPLICITY,
00:09:41TRANSPARENCY AND FAIRNESS ARE
EXTREMELY IMPORTANT.
00:09:43WHEN YOU HAVE A SITUATION WHERE
SOMEBODY CAN LIVE IN A
00:09:46JURISDICTION AND WORK SOMEWHERE
ELSE, THEY'RE ESSENTIALLY BEING
00:09:48TAXED IN SOME CASES, DEPENDING
WHETHER THEY HAVE THAT CREDIT,
00:09:51TWICE ON THAT SAME DOLLAR
EARNED.
00:09:54HERE IN CENTRAL OHIO, YOU CAN
PAY YOUR 2 1/2% TO COLUMBUS.
00:09:58BUT IF YOU LIVE SOMEWHERE ELSE,
YOU'RE GOING TO PAY 35% OF THE
00:10:04PLACE WHERE YOU LIVE ON TOP OF
THE 2 1/2% YOU'RE PAYING TO
00:10:08COLUMBUS.
YOU'RE PAYING TWICE THERE
00:10:09BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE THAT
FULL CREDIT.
00:10:12THAT REALLY, WE THINK IS A
FUNDAMENTAL VIOLATION AND IT'S
00:10:15JUST NOT FAIR TO TAXPAYERS.
WE NEED TO REEVALUATE THE WHOLE
00:10:19SYSTEM SO THAT WE CAN GET
APPROPRIATE SERVICES PAID FOR
00:10:22BUT ALSO BE FAIR TO ALL
TAXPAYERS.
00:10:25>> WHAT ABOUT THAT, KENT?
>> WELL, YOU KNOW, GREG MAKES
00:10:27AN IMPORTANT DISTINGS, BUT THIS
GETS DOWN TO LOCAL CONTROL AND
00:10:31THE ABILITY OF MUNICIPALITIES
TO FUND AND PROVIDE THE
00:10:34SERVICES THAT BUSINESSES AND
RESIDENTS EXPECT EVERY DAY.
00:10:39THE BILL DOES NOT DEAL WITH
RECIPROCITY AGREEMENT, DOES NOT
00:10:42MANDATE ANY TREATMENT.
THOSE ARE LOCAL DECISIONS THAT
00:10:45REFLECT THE LOCAL CIRCUMSTANCES
OF THEIR OWN COMMUNITY'S
00:10:48ECONOMIC FORECAST OR CONDITION.
MANY OF THEM DO ALLOW 100%
00:10:52CREDIT, BUT IT REALLY GETS TO
PAYING FOR THE SERVICES THAT
00:10:56PEOPLE USE.
THEY USE THE SERVICES WHEN
00:10:58THEY'RE AT WORK IF THEY'RE NOT
WORKING IN THE COMMUNITY THAT
00:11:01THEY LIVE.
AND THEN WHEN THEY GO HOME,
00:11:03THEY'RE BENEFITING FROM THE
SERVICES THAT THEY RECEIVE WHEN
00:11:05THEY'RE AT HOME.
SO THERE HAS TO BE A MECHANISM
00:11:08FOR MUNICIPALITIES TO FUND
THOSE SERVICES.
00:11:10>> YOU'RE SAYING IT SHOULD BE A
LOCAL CONTROL ISSUE AND NOT A
00:11:13STATE-MANDATED ISSUE?
>> THAT IS CORRECT.
00:11:15OUR POSITION IS THAT MANY OF
THESE ISSUES ARE LOCAL CONTROL
00:11:17ISSUES NOW AND WE FEEL THAT THE
STATE INTERCEDING ON SOME OF
00:11:19THESE VERY CRITICAL ISSUES
GROWS THE STATE GOVERNMENT,
00:11:23REDUCES THE AMOUNT OF CONTACT
AND EXPOSURE TAXPAYERS HAVE TO
00:11:26THEIR LOCAL COMMUNITIES, AND
THAT IS A TAX POLICY THAT OUR
00:11:30FOLKS FEEL IS NOT ADVANTAGEOUS
TO THE TAXPAYER.
00:11:32>> THAT'S SOMETHING THAT THE
BUCKEYE INSTITUTE TYPICALLY
00:11:36ARGUES AGAINST, THE IDEA OF
GROWING STATE GOVERNMENT.
00:11:38THIS IS AN AREA WHERE IT SOUNDS
LIKE THAT THIS IS MAKING STATE
00:11:42GOVERNMENT BIGGER AND GIVING IT
MORE AUTHORITY OVER LOCAL
00:11:45COMMUNITIES.
>> WELL, I THINK WHAT IT SIMPLY
00:11:46DOES IS TRIES TO SIMPLIFY
THINGS.
00:11:48THERE'S ALWAYS A BALANCING ACT.
WE'VE BEEN AGAINST ALL KINDS OF
00:11:51THINGS, STATE GOVERNMENT
GROWTH.
00:11:53AS A MATTER OF FACT, THERE'S
BEEN A LOT OF CONTROVERSY ABOUT
00:11:55CUTS TO LOCAL GOVERNMENTS IN
THE LAST FEW SESSIONS.
00:11:57WE'VE BEEN SUPPORTIVE OF THAT,
BUT WE ALSO SHARE THE CONCERNS
00:12:01OF LOCAL GOVERNMENTS HAVE WITH
RESPECT TO THE FACT THAT THE
00:12:04STATE HAS NOT NECESSARILY
SHARED IN THE BELT TIGHTENING.
00:12:07SO MAKE NO MISTAKE, WE ARE NOT
IN FAVOR OF GROWING STATE
00:12:10GOVERNMENT.
BUT WE HAVE TO BE VERY CAREFUL
00:12:12ABOUT FAIRNESS FOR TAXPAYERS
BECAUSE WE NEED TO REMEMBER
00:12:15THAT GOVERNMENT DOES ACT TO
SERVE AS A BENEFIT TO AND HELP
00:12:20THE TAXPAYER AND IT'S REALLY A
CREATURE OF WHAT TAXPAYERS
00:12:24WANT.
BUT IT'S ALWAYS THE TAXPAYER
00:12:27THEMSELVES THAT WE HAVE TO KEEP
PARAMOUNT IN OUR MIND.
00:12:29WE CAN'T WORRY ABOUT ALL THIS
REVENUE AND THINGS LIKE THAT
00:12:33FOR GOVERNMENT.
WE NEED TO KEEP THE FOCUS ON
00:12:35INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE PAYING THE
MONEY THAT FUNDS THE
00:12:39GOVERNMENT.
>> LET'S TALK ABOUT REVENUE.
00:12:40ONE OF THE BILL'S SPONSOR HAS
SAID THAT THERE COULD BE A
00:12:45FINANCIAL HIT TO CITIES BECAUSE
OF THIS.
00:12:46AND LET ME ASK YOU, GREG, I
DON'T UNDERSTAND IN A WAY HOW A
00:12:50MEASURE COULD BE CALLED BOTH
REVENUE NEUTRAL AND BUSINESS
00:12:53FRIENDLY WHEN IT COMES TO
SOMETHING LIKE THIS.
00:12:56HOW CAN YOU -- HOW CAN THAT
CLAIM BE MADE AND WHAT ABOUT
00:12:58THOSE CITIES THAT COULD
POTENTIALLY HAVE FINANCIAL
00:13:01IMPACTS?
>> WELL, I THINK THAT IT'S VERY
00:13:03IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND THAT
WHEN -- I THINK THERE WAS A
00:13:05REASON THAT EVERYBODY WANTED TO
TALK ABOUT REVENUE NEUTRALITY,
00:13:08ESPECIALLY IN LIGHT OF SOME OF
THE OTHER POLICIES THAT WE'VE
00:13:11SEEN CHANGED AT THE STATE
LEVEL, OR IN RECENT YEARS.
00:13:13BUT I THINK THAT THAT'S A
LITTLE BIT OF A DANGEROUS TRAP
00:13:16TO GET CAUGHT INTO IS TO HAVE
TO TRY TO TETHER YOURSELF INTO
00:13:19THAT.
WE NEED TO LOOK AT WHAT IS THE
00:13:21BEST REFORM TO MAKE OHIO THE
BEST COMPETITIVE STATE WE
00:13:25POSSIBLY CAN ECONOMICALLY.
SO IF SOME OF THOSE REFORMS DO,
00:13:28IN FACT, REDUCE INCOME, AND WE
HAVE SOME OTHER IDEAS THAT WE
00:13:31WOULD LIKE TO SEE THAT WOULD GO
FARTHER THAN THIS BILL, THERE'S
00:13:35NO QUESTION WE'D REDUCE
REVENUES.
00:13:37BUT IF THEY DO REDUCE REVENUES,
THEN IF THAT LEADS TO A
00:13:42REDUCTION IN CORE SERVICES, THE
THINGS THAT TAXPAYERS ARE, IN
00:13:45FACT, DEMANDING, THEN I THINK
IT IS REASONABLE TO EXPECT THAT
00:13:48THE LOCAL GOVERNMENTS CAN GO
BACK TO TAXPAYERS AND SAY, WE
00:13:50PERHAPS HAVE TO INCREASE THE
RATE.
00:13:52IF WE SIMPLIFY THE MECHANISMS
AND SOME OF THE ISSUES
00:13:57INVOLVING AROUND THE COMPLEXITY
AND THE FILINGS AND THE COST
00:13:59ASSOCIATED WITH THAT, AND IF
THAT IS GOOD FOR BUSINESSES,
00:14:02AND WE BELIEVE THAT IT IS, AND
IT REALLY DOES LEAD TO THAT,
00:14:06THAT'S LOCAL CONTROL, TOO.
BUT THEN I THINK IT'S INCUMBENT
00:14:09ON THE CITIES TO REALLY MAKE
THAT CASE.
00:14:11AND CAN -- I THINK MANY CAN
MAKE THAT CASE.
00:14:16MANY WILL HAVE TO EXPLAIN OTHER
AREAS WHERE THEY SPEND MONEY ON
00:14:19AND TAXPAYERS HAVE EVERY RIGHT
TO SAY SPEND LESS HERE TO FUND
00:14:22MY FIRE AND POLICE SERVICES.
>> LET ME ASK, KENT, THERE HAVE
00:14:25BEEN SOME SUPPORTERS WHO'VE
SAID THAT MOST OF OHIO CITIES,
00:14:29LIKE 97% OF OHIO CITIES DO
OPERATE WITH A BALANCED BUDGET.
00:14:3392% OF OHIO CITIES ARE RUNNING
A SURPLUS.
00:14:36IF THERE IS A FINANCIAL IMPACT
IT PROBABLY WON'T BE THAT BIG.
00:14:39WOULD IT BE A SIGNIFICANT
FINANCIAL IMPACT?
00:14:41>> WELL, YOU KNOW, EACH
COMMUNITY IS DIFFERENT.
00:14:43EACH COMMUNITY'S MAKEUP AND
COMPOSITION OF THE AMOUNT OF
00:14:46BUSINESS ACTIVITY VERSUS
RESIDENT, SOME ARE BEDROOM
00:14:49COMMUNITIES THAT THERE WON'T BE
A LOT OF CONSEQUENCE THAT THESE
00:14:52REFORMS WOULD HAVE ON THEM.
BUT COMMUNITIES OF ANY
00:14:55SUBSTANTIAL SIZE WITH BUSINESS
ACTIVITY, THEY'LL FEEL THOSE
00:14:57REDUCED REVENUES.
WHEN YOU COUPLE THOSE
00:15:00REDUCTIONS AND SOME OF THESE
REFORM AREAS WITH THE CUTS TO
00:15:02THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT FUND THAT
WAS ABOUT $5.5 MILLION, THE
00:15:07REPEAL OF OHIO'S ESTATE TAX,
WHETHER YOU AGREE WITH IT OR
00:15:09NOT, THAT WAS ABOUT $300
MILLION TO MUNICIPALITIES AND
00:15:14OTHER CHANGE NECESSARY STATE
REVENUE SHARING THAT WERE
00:15:16CHANGED IN PREVIOUS STATE
BUDGETS, YOU COUPLE THOSE
00:15:19TOGETHER AND THOSE ARE
SIGNIFICANT LOSSES OF REVENUE.
00:15:24THE CUTS MAY BE 3% OR 4%, YOU
COUPLE THAT WITH ANOTHER 4%,
00:15:305%, YOU'RE INTO 10%, 15% OF THE
BUDGET AND THE ABILITY TO
00:15:34PROVIDE SERVICES THAT OUR
REVENUES GO RIGHT BACK INTO THE
00:15:38COMMUNITIES TO HAVE SAFETY
SERVICES TO HAVE SAFE ROADS.
00:15:41AND AN ENVIRONMENT WHERE
BUSINESSES ARE ATTRACTIVE, WANT
00:15:44TO GROW AND PRODUCE JOBS.
>> NOW, THIS BILL DOES NOT DO
00:15:46ANYTHING TO TAX RATES.
BUT DO YOU FEAR THAT THIS BILL
00:15:50WILL EVENTUALLY, IF IT PASSES,
LEAD TO TAX INCREASES AT THE
00:15:54LOCAL LEVEL?
>> WE'VE ALREADY SEEN JUST BY
00:15:55THE CUTS FROM THE ESTATE TAX
AND THE OTHER STATE POLICY
00:16:00CHANGES THERE HAVE BEEN NEEDS
TO RAISE REVENUE ON THE LOCAL
00:16:03LEVEL.
WE HAVE BEEN DOING SHARED
00:16:05SERVICES BEFORE 2008 WHEN WE
HAD ECONOMIC CHALLENGES AND A
00:16:09LOT OF REGIONALISM WAS GROWN
THEN.
00:16:12SO ABSOLUTELY, WE'RE GOING TO
SEE A TAX SHIFT.
00:16:14WE'RE GOING TO SEE THE PRESSURE
PUT ON LOCALS AS IT IS NOW TO
00:16:18EITHER PROVIDE LESS SERVICES
AND EXPLAIN THAT TO THEIR
00:16:22CONSTITUENTS OR ASK FOR GREATER
REVENUES, AND I'LL TELL YOU
00:16:26THAT 19 OF THE 57 BALLOT ISSUES
THAT WERE JUST ON THIS PREVIOUS
00:16:32ELECTION, 19 OF THOSE PASSED.
SO THE, YOU KNOW, ONLY 1/3 OF
00:16:36THOSE PASSED WERE ASKING FOR
GREATER REVENUES TO MEET THE
00:16:40SERVICE DEMANDS THAT ARE BEING
REQUESTED.
00:16:42>> I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT THE
OVERALL IDEA OF LOOPHOLES.
00:16:45THERE HAVE BEEN SOME CRITICISMS
THIS BILL DOESN'T NECESSARILY
00:16:47DO ANYTHING ABOUT LOOPHOLES AND
ALLOWS CERTAIN LOOPHOLES TO NOT
00:16:50ONLY CONTINUE BUT TO EVEN
EXPAND.
00:16:52SO LET ME ASK YOU, GREG, WHY
WOULDN'T THE BILL TAKE ON
00:16:56CLOSING SOME LOOPHOLES AS WELL
AS PUTTING IN UNIFORMITY AND
00:17:00SOME OTHER THINGS?
>> WE WOULD NOT HAVE A PROBLEM
00:17:02IF IT DID.
AS A MATTER OF FACT, WE FOCUSED
00:17:04ON KEY ITEMS THAT WE THINK ARE
VERY IMPORTANT IN THE BIG
00:17:07PICTURE FOR FAIRNESS AND FOR
MAKING THINGS MORE ECONOMICALLY
00:17:11COMPETITIVE.
BUT I KNOW THERE'S A VARIETY OF
00:17:13INDIVIDUAL AREAS THAT MAY NOT
MAKE QUITE AS MUCH SENSE, AND
00:17:17WE'VE BEEN ON THE RECORD IN THE
PAST, EVEN AT THE STATE LEVEL,
00:17:19TALKING ABOUT TAX LOOPHOLES.
AND THE NEED TO CLOSE THOSE.
00:17:23AND AS A MATTER OF FACT, IF YOU
CLOSE SOMETIMES THOSE
00:17:27LOOPHOLES, YOU GENERATE
REVENUE.
00:17:28SOME PEOPLE WANT TO SPEND THAT.
SOME PEOPLE WOULD PREFER TO SEE
00:17:31RATES GET LOWERED, AS WE WOULD.
BUT YOU KNOW, TAKE A LOOK AT
00:17:36THAT.
WE WOULD NOT NECESSARILY BE
00:17:38ADVERSE TO TAKING A LOOK AT
THOSE AND CLOSING IT.
00:17:40WE JUST THINK WE NEED TO ALWAYS
MAINTAIN THE BIG PICTURE FOCUS
00:17:44ON OHIO'S ECONOMY.
I TALKED ON THIS SHOW BEFORE
00:17:46ABOUT HOW POORLY WE'VE DONE FOR
A LONG PERIOD OF TIME IN TERMS
00:17:49OF JOB GROWTH.
THAT'S NOT ALL DUE TO THE
00:17:53MUNICIPAL INCOME TAX, BUT THIS
CERTAINLY IS ONE FACTOR OF MANY
00:17:56THAT IS A PROBLEM.
SO LET'S LOOK AT THE LOOPHOLES,
00:17:59WE'D BE OPEN TO THAT.
>> KENT, WOULD YOU BE OPEN --
00:18:02WOULD THE CITIES WANT TO LOOK
AT THAT OR WOULD THAT BE STILL
00:18:04AN ISSUE OF LOCAL CONTROL, THE
IDEA THE STATE IS TELLING
00:18:07CITIES WHAT TO DO?
>> WELL, I THINK GREG WOULD
00:18:10AGREE THAT THE INCOME TAX IS A
FLAT TAX NOW, UNLIKE THE
00:18:14GRADUATED SCHEDULES AND
DIFFERENT CLASSES THAT THE
00:18:17STATE HAS AND THE FEDERAL.
THIS IS A FLAT TAX.
00:18:19IT IS FULL OF EXCEPTIONS AND
LOOPHOLES THAT HAVE BEEN
00:18:22GENERATED BY THE OHIO GENERAL
ASSEMBLY.
00:18:27WE HAVE BEEN WORKING TO REMOVE
THOSE AND TRY TO STREAMLINE THE
00:18:31SYSTEM.
SOME OF THE LOOPHOLES ARE A
00:18:32GREAT CHALLENGE TO US.
THIS IS SOMETHING THE BUCKEYE
00:18:35INSTITUTE HAVE IN COMMON.
WE'D LIKE TO HAVE THAT RETURNED
00:18:38TO A GREATER FLAT TAX WHICH IS
A BETTER TAX FOR TAXPAYERS.
00:18:41>> SO LET'S MOVE ON TO THE
ISSUE OF BUSINESSES CARRYING
00:18:45FORWARD LOSSES.
CAN'T THIS BILL REQUIRE ALL
00:18:47CITIES, INCLUDING 170 THAT
DON'T NOW, TO ACCEPT THE
00:18:50UNIFORM FIVE-YEAR PERIOD DURING
WHICH BUSINESS COULD CARRY
00:18:54FORWARD LOSSES?
THERE ARE THOSE LIKE GREG WHO'D
00:18:56LIKE TO SEE THAT EXPANDED TO
HELP WITH STARTUP BUSINESSES.
00:18:58WHAT'S WRONG WITH THAT IDEA?
>> YOU'RE RIGHT, KAREN.
00:19:02THERE ARE 175 CITIES RIGHT NOW
THAT HAVE A ZERO NET OPERATING
00:19:07LOSS CARRY FORWARD PROCEDURE.
ROUGHLY 2/3 HAVE A FIVE-YEAR
00:19:11N.O.L.
THIS IS AN UNFUNDED MANDATE
00:19:13BEING PUT ON OUR LOCAL KNEW
MISS PATS TO CARRY THIS PLAN
00:19:17FOR BUSINESSES WHERE FRANKLY,
SOME COMMUNITIES CANNOT AFFORD
00:19:20TO RELIEVE OR GIVE THAT TAX FOR
THAT LENGTH OF TIME.
00:19:24COMMUNITIES THAT ARE ABLE TO DO
IT DO IT.
00:19:27BUT THERE HAS BEEN NO
CORRELATION BETWEEN THE CARRY
00:19:30FORWARD PRACTICE AND THE
ABILITY TO ATTRACT JOBS AND
00:19:33ATTRACT EMPLOYMENT.
SO IT REALLY MEANS A VERY
00:19:36SUBSTANTIAL AMOUNT OF MONEY.
GENERALLY FOR A MEDIUM SIZED
00:19:39COMMUNITY, WE'RE LOOKING AT
$400,000, $500,000 WOULD BE THE
00:19:43REVENUE LOSS FROM THAT ONE
COMPONENT.
00:19:45YOU COUPLE IT WITH THE OTHER
REFORM HITS THAT HAVE REVENUE
00:19:48APPLICATIONS AND IT REALLY
BECOMES UNSIS TAINABLE.
00:19:50>> GREG, YOU'VE ARGUED FORING
ALON AS A 20-YEAR CARRY FORWARD
00:19:56PERIOD.
WOULDN'T THAT JUST BE
00:19:57DEVASTATING?
>> TWO THINGS.
00:19:5820 YEARS IS WHAT THE FEDS HAVE
IN TERMS OF THE FEDERAL LEVEL
00:20:02FOR INCOME TAX FOR THOSE
BUSINESSES.
00:20:04AND WILL THERE BE AN IMPACT?
YES, THERE WILL BE AN IMPACT
00:20:06AND THERE COULD BE A
SUBSTANTIAL IMPACT.
00:20:08HOWEVER, WE HAVE TO THINK ABOUT
THE FACT, AS I BROUGHT UP
00:20:12BEFORE, OHIO HAS NOT GROWN JOBS
FOR A VERY LONG TIME AT THE
00:20:16RATE -- THE NATIONAL RATE.
GOING BACK TO THE 1960'S, OHIO
00:20:20HAS NEVER HAD JOB GROWTH AT THE
NATIONAL AVERAGE.
00:20:23NEVER.
NOT IN OVER 50 YEARS.
00:20:25AND WE LOST MORE PRIVATE SECTOR
JOBS IN THE LAST DECADE THAN
00:20:28ANY STATE EXCEPT MICHIGAN.
SO THE STATUS QUO, AND WE SAY
00:20:32WE'RE BUSINESS FRIENDLY AND
WE'RE DOING ALL OF THAT, THE
00:20:34FACTS ARE OTHERWISE.
THE JOB GROWTH, IN FACT,
00:20:39CONTRARY TO CERTAIN THINGS WE
HEARD EVEN IN THE CAMPAIGN,
00:20:42THIS WAS NOT A GREAT YEAR FOR
JOB GROWTH IN OHIO.
00:20:45WE WERE THE 45TH STATE IN JOB
GROWTH THIS YEAR.
00:20:48SMALL BUSINESSES ARE WHERE THE
NET OPERATING LOSS WILL BE
00:20:52HELPFUL.
GETTING OFF THE GROUND, THEY'RE
00:20:54NOT MAKING MONEY, THAT'S WHY
THEY'RE USING THE NET OPERATING
00:20:57LOSS.
SO YOU WANT TO HELP THEM TO BE
00:20:59ABLE TO GET OFF THE GROUND.
AND WE'VE SEEN LITERATURE AND
00:21:03THE UNIVERSITY OF NEBRASKA HAS
OHIO RANKING 42 OUT OF 50
00:21:08STATES FOR ENTREPRENEURSHIP.
NEW BUSINESS STARTUPS ARE VERY
00:21:12LOW RANKING IN RESPECT TO THE
REST OF THE COUNTRY.
00:21:15SO WILL THE NET OPERATING LOSS
BE THE THING THAT SEALS THE
00:21:20DEAL?
IT MIGHT NOT MAKE US JUMP UP TO
00:21:23NUMBER ONE, BUT IT WILL IP
PROOF THINGS.
00:21:25IS THERE A COST?
YES.
00:21:26BUT IT'S A COST THAT OHIO HAS
TO DO IF IT'S GOING TO IMPROVE
00:21:30ON 50 YEARS OF SUB PAR GROWTH.
>> GO AHEAD.
00:21:33>> MAY I RESPOND TO THAT?
VERY IMPORTANT PART OF OUR
00:21:36DISCUSSION AND THE CON SER
VATION THAT'S BEEN TAKING
00:21:40PLACE.
JOBS DON'T COME TO OHIO.
00:21:42THEY COME TO LOCALES.
80% OF THE JOB ACTIVITY AND
00:21:45GROWTH IS IN MUNICIPALITIES.
SO IF THEY COME TO OHIO BUT
00:21:48THEY LAND IN A COMMUNITY AND
GENERALLY THEY ARE
00:21:51MUNICIPALITIES, IT IS OUR
POSITION THAT MUNICIPALITIES
00:21:55MUST HAVE THE ABILITY TO PUT
THEIR BEST FOOT FORWARD AND
00:21:57THAT IS HAVING GOOD ROADS THAT
WHEN THEY COME TO VISIT THEIR
00:22:00COMMUNITY, YES, THIS IS
SOMEPLACE THAT I CAN DRIVE DOWN
00:22:03THE ROAD AND NOT HAVE A
PROBLEM.
00:22:05THEY CAN SEE THE UPKEEP AND THE
MAINTENANCE OF THE COMMUNITY IS
00:22:09IN GOOD SHAPE AND IS SOMEPLACE
THAT WILL ATTRACT WORKERS TO
00:22:12BUILD THEIR BUSINESSES.
SO THERE'S A DIRECT CORRELATION
00:22:15BETWEEN THE HEALTH AND
STABILITY OF OHIO MUNICIPALITY
00:22:18FOR JOB CREATION AND THE
VITALITY OF THE STATE OVERALL
00:22:21IN BRINGING IN EMPLOYMENT.
>> KENT SCARRETT AND GREG
00:22:24LAWSON, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR
BEING HERE.
00:22:26I APPRECIATE IT.
>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.
00:22:27>> LAST WEEK, TWO GUESTS WERE
IN THESE SEATS TO TALK ABOUT A
00:22:30STUDY ABOUT THE IMPACT OF
OHIO'S AGING POPULATION ON THE
00:22:34STATE BUDGET.
IN THEIR REPORT FOR THE CENTER
00:22:36FOR COMMUNITY SOLUTIONS, JON
HONECK AND BILL LAFAYETTE SAID
00:22:40THE GRAYING OF OHIO WILL LIKELY
MEAN A NEARLY $1.2 BILLION
00:22:44DECLINE IN ANNUAL STATE INCOME
TAX REVENUE COUPLED WITH
00:22:48INCREASES IN MEDICAID SPENDING
THAT WOULD ADD UP TO NEARLY
00:22:51$680 MILLION A YEAR.
BUT A GROUP THAT ADVOCATES ON
00:22:55BEHALF OF PEOPLE 50 AND OVER
SAYS THAT'S NOT THE FULL
00:22:57PICTURE.
AARP HAS DONE ITS OWN STUDY ON
00:23:00WHAT IT CALLS THE LONGEVITY
ECONOMY.
00:23:03AARP'S EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT
NANCY LEAMOND TRAVELED THROUGH
00:23:07OHIO RECENTLY TO TALK ABOUT THE
STUDY, WHICH SHE SAYS LOOKS AT
00:23:10THE KINDS OF CONTRIBUTIONS THAT
OLDER OHIOANS ARE MAKING TO THE
00:23:13ECONOMY.
>> WELL, WHAT IT SHOWS IS THAT
00:23:16THE ECONOMIC IMPACT HERE IN THE
STATE OF OHIO IS FAIRLY
00:23:21SUBSTANTIAL FOR PEOPLE OVER THE
AGE OF 50.
00:23:22THEY'RE CONTRIBUTING, COMPARED
TO THE SIZE OF THE POPULATION
00:23:26THEY R. THEY'RE CONTRIBUTING
EVEN MORE WHEN YOU LOOK AT
00:23:30G.D.P. AND SUPPORT FOR JOBS.
AND THINK OF THE KIND OF JOBS
00:23:32THAT ARE NECESSARY TO SUPPORT
AN OLDER POPULATION.
00:23:34THEY ARE LARGELY IN THE AREA OF
HEALTH CARE.
00:23:36HEALTH CARE IS AN IMPORTANT
INDUSTRY IN THE STATE OF OHIO.
00:23:40>> LEAMOND SAYS AARP IS
WATCHING THE SHIFT FROM A
00:23:43RELIANCE ON INCOME TAX TO SALES
TAXES, WHICH THE KASICH
00:23:45ADMINISTRATION HAS BEEN PUSHING
FOR.
00:23:47AND WHILE LEAMOND SAYS HALF OF
THE RESPONDENTS TO MOST AARP
00:23:51SURVEYS SAY THEY WILL NOT BE
RETIRING, EITHER BECAUSE THEY
00:23:54CAN'T AFFORD TO OR THEY WANT TO
CONTINUE TO WORK, THEY WILL
00:23:57HAVE AN IMPACT ON THE STATE
BUDGET.
00:23:58>> OF COURSE, IF YOU'RE NOT
WORKING, YOU'RE NOT PAYING
00:24:02INCOME TAX, AND MORE SALES TAX
AFFECTS THE AMOUNT OF MONEY YOU
00:24:06HAVE EVERY MONTH AND WE KNOW
THAT FULLY 50% OF OHIOANS WHO
00:24:12ARE RECEIVING SOCIAL SECURITY,
THAT'S THEIR MAIN SOURCE OF
00:24:14INCOME.
SO WE KNOW THEY'RE NOT -- THEY
00:24:18DON'T HAVE LAVISH BUDGETS.
WE OBVIOUSLY ARE CONCERNED
00:24:21ABOUT -- ABOUT SALES TAXES.
BUT INCREASINGLY PEOPLE ARE
00:24:26STAYING IN THE WORK FORCE, SO
INCREASINGLY YOU'RE GOING TO
00:24:28SEE MORE AND MORE PEOPLE OVER
THE AGE OF 65 PAYING INCOME
00:24:32TAXES BECAUSE HOPEFULLY THEY'LL
HAVE JOBS.
00:24:33>> AND LEAMOND SAYS SHE AGREES
WITH THE CENTER FOR COMMUNITY
00:24:37SOLUTIONS AUTHORS THAT
WORKPLACE RESS GOING TO HAVE TO
00:24:39ADAPT TO OLDER OHIOANS BY
CREATING MORE ERGONOMIC
00:24:43WORKSPACES AND MORE FLEXIBLE
SCHEDULES.
00:24:45BUT SHE SAYS THAT LATTER ISSUE
IS SOMETHING THAT GEN XERS AND
00:24:49MILLENNIAL WORKERS ARE
INCREASINGLY SAYING THEY WANT,
00:24:51TOO.
AND THAT'S IT FOR THIS WEEK.
00:24:54FOR MY COLLEAGUES AT OHIO
PUBLIC RADIO AND TELEVISION,
00:24:56THANKS FOR WATCHING.
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00:24:57MAKE COMMENTS, OR WATCH THIS
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00:25:01IDEASTREAM.ORG/OHIO.
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Note : Transcripts are compiled from uncorrected captions