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00:00:01>> SUPPORT FOR THE STATEWIDE
BROADCAST OF THE STATE OF OHIO
00:00:08COMES FROM THE LAW OFFICES OF
PORTER, WRIGHT, MORRIS AND
00:00:10ARTHUR, LLP.
HELPING BUSINESS AND INDIVIDUAL
00:00:12WITH COMPLEX LEGAL PROBLEMS IN
OHIO, ACROSS THE COUNTRY AND
00:00:15AROUND THE WORLD.
ON LINE AT PORTER WRIGHT.COM.
00:00:20AND FROM
THE OHIO EDUCATION ASSOCIATION,
00:00:22REPRESENTING 121,000 TEACHERS,
SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL AND HIGHER
00:00:24EDUCATION FACULTY COMMITTED TO
THE SUCCESS OF EVERY CHILD.
00:00:28ON LINE AT OHEA.COM.
>> [CAPTIONING PERFORMED BY THE
00:00:37NATIONAL CAPTIONING INSTITUTE,
WHICH IS RESPONSIBLE FOR ITS
00:00:38CAPTION CONTENT AND ACCURACY.
VISIT NCICAP.ORG]
00:00:40>> LOOKING BACK AND LEARNING
MORE ABOUT A LEGEND IN OHIO
00:00:43POLITICS.
AND TAKING A TRIP BACK IN TIME
00:00:46TO AN ICONIC COLUMBUS
RESTAURANT.
00:00:50THAT WHAT WE'RE DOING THIS WEEK
IN "THE STATE OF OHIO".
00:00:55THE HOLIDAY SEASON IS UPON US,
AND FOR MANY PEOPLE, THAT MEANS
00:00:57SHOPPING.
BOOKS ARE OFTEN A GOOD CHOICE
00:01:02FOR THOSE WHO ARE JUST HARD TO
BUY FOR, WHO HAVE EVERYTHING, OR
00:01:04WHO ARE CRAZY ABOUT POLITICS AND
HISTORY.
00:01:06THIS WEEK, I'LL SPOTLIGHT TWO
RECENT BOOKS THAT MIGHT HELP
00:01:08WITH CHECKING OFF THOSE WHO ARE
IN THAT LAST CATEGORY.
00:01:13THERE HAVE BEEN 63 GOVERNORS OF
OHIO, AND SIX OF THEM HAVE
00:01:15SERVED TWO SEPARATE TERMS IN THE
STATE'S TOP EXECUTIVE OFFICE.
00:01:17THE FIRST FIVE -- ALLEN TRIMBLE,
WILSON SHANNON, RUTHERFORD B.
00:01:18HAYES -- WHO ALSO WENT ON TO
BECOME PRESIDENT -- JAMES COX
00:01:20AND FRANK LAUSCHE -- HAVE MOSTLY
FADED INTO HISTORY.
00:01:24BUT THE LEGACY OF THE LAST
MULTIPLE TERM GOVERNOR, JAMES
00:01:26RHODES, LIVES ON IN MANY MINDS,
AND AND NOW IN THE PAGES OF A
00:01:31BOOK THAT'S BEEN DESCRIBED BY
ANOTHER GOVERNOR, BOB TAFT, THE
00:01:34FIRST "THOROUGH, BALANCED
BIOGRAPHY OF THIS DOMINANT
00:01:35POLITICAL PERSONALITY AND
AMAZING HUMAN BEING."
00:01:39THE BOOK "JAMES A RHODES: OHIO
COLOSSUS" TRACKS THE RISE OF
00:01:43RHODES FROM HIS MODEST
UPBRINGING IN JACKSON COUNTY TO
00:01:47HIS ATHLETIC ACCOMPLISHMENTS TO
HIS LONG POLITICAL CAREER,
00:01:49BEGINNING ON THE SCHOOL BOARD
AND ENDING AS ONE OF JUST SIX
00:01:52GOVERNORS ANYWHERE IN THE US WHO
SERVED FOUR FOUR-YEAR TERMS.
00:01:57THE BOOK IS SO COMPREHENSIVE AND
WELL-RESEARCHED IT HAS THREE
00:01:59CO-AUTHORS -- FORMER PLAIN
DEALER REPORTER RICHARD
00:02:02ZIMMERMAN, WHO STARTED THE BOOK
BEFORE HE DIED, FORMER PLAIN
00:02:05DEALER AND ASSOCIATED PRESS
REPORTER TOM DIEMER, AND LEE
00:02:08LEONARD, WHO REPORTED FOR UPI
AND THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH UNTIL
00:02:11HE RETIRED A FEW YEARS AGO.
I ASKED LEE LEONARD ABOUT THE
00:02:14COMPLEX LEGACY OF JIM RHODES --
BOTH THE CONTROVERSIAL TIMES,
00:02:18SUCH AS HIS NASTY LOSING
CAMPAIGN AGAINST DICK CELESTE IN
00:02:221986 AND THE TRAGIC SHOOTINGS AT
KENT STATE, BUT ALSO HIS
00:02:25REPUTATION AS A DEALMAKER AND A
CONSUMMATE POLITICIAN WHO GOT
00:02:29THINGS DONE.
>> NEAR THE END OF THE BOOK, IN
00:02:37FACT AT THE END OF THE BOOK WE
JUST SORT OF SOME UP THE
00:02:40ACCOMPLISHMENTS THAT HE HAD.
THERE HAVE BEEN SEVERAL VANITY
00:02:45BOOKS ABOUT ROADS THAT HAVE BEEN
PUT OUT THAT HAD ALL OF HIS
00:02:48ACCOMPLISHMENTS AND WE BORROWED
HEAVILY FROM THAT.
00:02:51I THINK WE MIGHT HAVE
EXAGGERATED.
00:02:52WE TRY TO GET AS CLOSE AS WE
POSSIBLY COULD TO THE AREAS OF
00:02:58EDUCATION AND MONUMENT BUILDING.
HE WAS GREAT FOR BUILDING
00:03:07BUILDINGS.
MILLIONS LOVED HIM FOR THAT.
00:03:10THEY WERE ON HIS SIDE.
HE WAS ABLE TO WORK WITH VARIOUS
00:03:15DIFFERENT KINDS OF GROUPS IN A
WAY THAT I DON'T THINK THAT SOME
00:03:19OF THE POLITICIANS NOW ARE ABLE
TO DO.
00:03:20>> HOW MUCH DO YOU FEEL LIKE THE
KENT STATE SITUATION PLAYED ON
00:03:25HIM?
YOU HAVE A LOT OF DESCRIPTIONS
00:03:27OF HIM BEING GRUFF AND FLINTY,
BUT ALSO SOME SOFTER SIDE
00:03:33STORIES ABOUT HOW MUCH HE LOVED
HIS WIFE AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
00:03:36I THINK FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE THE
KENT STATE SHOOTINGS REALLY
00:03:38STAND OUT.
HOW DID THAT WHOLE SITUATION WAY
00:03:42ON HIM?
WHAT WAS HE LIKE BEFORE AND
00:03:45AFTER THAT?
>> WE COULD NOT SEE A DIFFERENCE
00:03:50BEFORE AND AFTER AND I THINK
THAT THAT IS THE WAY HE WANTED
00:03:51IT.
I THINK THAT IT HURT HIM,
00:03:54ESPECIALLY HURT HIM THAT IT
HAPPENED AND THAT HE WAS IN
00:03:58CHARGE AT THE TIME.
HE DID NOT WANT TO ACCEPT THE
00:04:02BLAME FOR THAT.
I DO THINK THAT IT HURT HIM
00:04:06DEEPLY INSIDE.
BECAUSE HE LIKED YOUNG PEOPLE.
00:04:11AND HE WAS NOT BLAMING THAT ON
THE STUDENTS.
00:04:14HE WAS MORE BLAMING IT ON PEOPLE
WHO CAME IN FROM THE OUTSIDE AND
00:04:17WERE AGITATING DURING THOSE
DISTURBANCES.
00:04:21I KNOW THAT HE DID NOT WANT TO
ADMIT IT.
00:04:24THAT IS THE WAY HE WAS ABOUT
MANY THINGS.
00:04:28HE DID NOT WANT TO ADMIT FAULT,
DID NOT WANT TO TALK ABOUT SAD
00:04:34THINGS THAT HAD HAPPENED.
HE JUST WANTED TO MOVE AHEAD.
00:04:37>> WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT HIM AS A
POLITICIAN, HE ALSO HAD A WAY OF
00:04:42CONNECTING WITH OTHER PEOPLE
THAT YOU WOULD NOT NECESSARILY
00:04:45-- NOT JUST THE MONEYMAKERS AND
THE BIG CONNECTED PEOPLE.
00:04:49HE LIKED TO TALK TO PEOPLE THAT
WERE NOT NECESSARILY THE PEOPLE
00:04:54DONATING TO HIS CAMPAIGN.
>> THE PRESS CORPS, WE WOULD GO
00:04:59ON TRIPS, HE WOULD TAKE US A
LONG AND IT WOULD BE TIME FOR
00:05:01LUNCH AND HE WOULD GO INTO SOME
RESTAURANT OR DINER AND BUY A
00:05:06WHOLE BOX OF HAMBURGERS, HIS
FAVORITE FOOD, HAMBURGERS WITH
00:05:10GARNISHMENT ON THEM.
WE WOULD BE SITTING THERE,
00:05:14EATING AND WE WOULD SAY -- WHERE
IS THE GOVERNOR?
00:05:18YOU WOULD GO INTO THE RESTAURANT
AND HE WOULD BE SITTING DOWN
00:05:22BESIDE SOME LABOR AND THEY WOULD
BE EATING A BOWL OF CHILI OR A
00:05:24PICKLED EGG.
HE LOVED THE COMMON PEOPLE.
00:05:30HOWEVER, THAT'S NOT TO SAY THAT
HE DID NOT GET ALONG WELL WITH
00:05:35THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY.
THAT WAS ONE OF THE REASONS WHY
00:05:38HE FADED AWAY.
BECAUSE THE BUSINESS TITANS WHO
00:05:41HAD SUPPORTED HIM DURING THE
1960'S, THROUGH FRIENDSHIP AND
00:05:47MONEY, AFTER A WHILE YOU COULD
NOT GET THINGS DONE BY
00:05:55CONSORTING WITH THE BUSINESS
MOGULS.
00:05:56YOU HAD TO GO THROUGH THEIR
IMAGE MAKERS AT THE STATEHOUSE.
00:06:00HE DID NOT PICK UP ON THAT
CHANGE IN THE CULTURE.
00:06:04>> AS REPORTERS WE OFTEN TALK
ABOUT THE CURRENT GOVERNOR BEING
00:06:10DIFFICULT IN TERMS OF ACCESS AND
TRYING TO FIND HIM ON A GIVEN
00:06:14DAY TO GET HIM TO REACT TO
SOMETHING, BUT HE WAS NOTHING
00:06:18COMPARED TO JIM RHODES AND HIS
ACCESSIBILITY.
00:06:20>> WELL, GOVERNOR RHODES, WHEN
HE WANTED TO GET SOMETHING OUT
00:06:27THERE, HE WAS NOT ABOVE
SCHEDULING TWO AND THREE PRESS
00:06:33CONFERENCES PER DAY.
YOU WOULD RUN DOWN THERE,
00:06:34PERFORM, GO DOWN -- GO BACK AND
WRITE YOUR STORY.
00:06:38WHAT HE DID NOT WANT -- WHEN HE
DID NOT WANT YOU TO KNOW WHAT HE
00:06:42WAS DOING, HE WAS NOT VISIBLE
AND NOT TESTABLE.
00:06:46YOU COULD NOT FIND OUT WHERE HE
WAS.
00:06:48HE DIDN'T HAVE A GOVERNORS
SCHEDULE.
00:06:51AFTER THE FIRST EIGHT YEARS WHEN
HE CAME BACK INTO OFFICE AND WE
00:06:56HAD HAD FOUR YEARS OF JOHN J
GILLIGAN, WHO PUBLISHED A
00:07:00GOVERNORS SCHEDULE EVERY DAY, WE
SAID -- WE ARE GOING TO HAVE
00:07:04THIS KIND OF ORDERLY GOVERNMENT.
IN EFFECT HE SAID -- NO, YOU'RE
00:07:09NOT, I'M JUST GOING TO DO WHAT I
DID THE LAST TIME.
00:07:11>> HE DID NOT LIVE IN THE
GOVERNOR'S RESIDENCE EITHER.
00:07:16HE KEPT ALL SORTS OF HOURS IN
DIFFERENT PLACES.
00:07:19HE WAS AT THE ATHLETIC CLUB, HE
DID NOT LET ANYONE -- I AM SURE
00:07:25THAT HIS STAFF KNEW, BUT YOU AS
A REPORTER DID NOT KNOW.
00:07:29>> THAT'S RIGHT, AND HE DID NOT
WANT US TO KNOW.
00:07:31OUR CO-AUTHOR, WHO DID MUCH OF
THE WORK ON THE EARLY YEARS AND
00:07:36KNEW HIM WHEN HE WAS THE AUDITOR
, HE WAS A CARTOONIST AND HE
00:07:41DREW THIS CARTOON THAT WAS
ALWAYS POSTED ON THE PRESSROOM
00:07:44BULLETIN BOARD CALLED THE LEAD
PATCH.
00:07:45-- THE LEAD PATCH.
RHODES WAS ALWAYS DISAPPEARING
00:07:54INTO THE WEED PATCH.
I WISH WE HAD KEPT THOSE
00:07:57CARTOONS.
GOVERNOR KASICH, WE CAN SEE
00:08:01FLASHES OF ROADS THERE.
-- YOU BRING UP GOVERNOR KASICH.
00:08:06WE CAN SEE FLASHES OF RHODES
THERE.
00:08:15>> IT IS INTERESTING THAT YOU
MENTION COMMUNICATION WITH HIM,
00:08:17HE IS SOMEWHAT RESPONSIBLE FOR
THE NEWS BUREAU, HE WANTED A WAY
00:08:26TO COMMUNICATE WITH THE STATE OF
OHIO, HE DID HAVE A THOUGHT THAT
00:08:30THIS WAS A STATEMENT NEEDED MASS
COMMUNICATION, THAT YOU NEEDED
00:08:36TO GET THE WORD OUT TO PEOPLE
ACROSS THE STATE, BUT ON HIS
00:08:39TIMEFRAME AND SCHEDULE.
>> THAT IS TRUE.
00:08:43AND AS FAR AS COMMUNICATING HE
DID NOT -- HE WAS NOT A GOOD
00:08:46COMMUNICATOR BY MAKING
TELEVISION COMMERCIALS FOR HIS
00:08:50CAMPAIGNS.
HE WAS NOT IN THE COMMERCIALS.
00:08:55PEOPLE WOULD NOT HAVE BELIEVED
HOW HE SPOKE.
00:08:56HE WISELY KEPT HIMSELF AWAY FROM
THOSE.
00:09:01BUT HE DID OTHER THINGS THAT YOU
WOULD NOT EXPECT.
00:09:05YOU WOULD NOT EXPECT HIM TO SET
UP A COMMUNICATING NETWORK.
00:09:09>> HE WAS REALLY WELL READ AND
WAS RESPONSIBLE IN MANY WAYS FOR
00:09:14THE PUSH TOWARD COLLEGE
EDUCATIONS IN OHIO, REALLY
00:09:17AFFECTING THAT.
>> WE NEVER KNEW HOW WELL READ
00:09:24HE WAS.
HE READ BOOKS, SERIOUS BOOKS --
00:09:27NOT COMIC BOOKS.
THAT IS HOW HE LEARNED.
00:09:30HE CARRIED THE WALL STREET
JOURNAL AROUND IN HIS BRIEFCASE
00:09:33AND LOOK AT THAT.
THAT IS WHERE HE GOT A LOT OF
00:09:35HIS IDEAS FOR FORWARD-LOOKING
TECHNOLOGY THAT HE WANTED TO GET
00:09:39IN ON IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR
WHERE HE COULD MAKE SOME MONEY.
00:09:43WHICH IS WHAT HE DID.
I DID THINGS THAT YOU WOULD
00:09:49NEVER HAVE IT ACTED HIM TO DO.
HE WAS THE ONE THAT STOPPED
00:09:54EXECUTING PEOPLE.
MURDERS, HE STOPPED THE ELECTRIC
00:09:59CHAIR.
I BELIEVE IT WAS 1963 AND IT
00:10:04NEVER STARTED UP AGAIN INTO THE
80'S.
00:10:05THEY DID NOT PASS ALONG
REINSTATING THE DEATH PENALTY
00:10:14UNTIL 1981 AND JUSTICE HYPER WAS
THE SPONSOR.
00:10:18>> WE ARE SEEING A YOUNGER SET
OF LAWMAKERS COMING IN, THE
00:10:24YOUNGEST HOUSE SPEAKER IN RECENT
HISTORY, 33 YEARS OLD, IS
00:10:30ELECTED.
YOUR CO-AUTHOR ON THE PROGRAM
00:10:33SAID THAT THIS ERA IS RAPIDLY
FADING, THE ERA OF JIM RHODES.
00:10:38IT IS INTERESTING TO TELL A
STORY ABOUT A TIME THAT IS GOING
00:10:40AWAY.
>> AND I DON'T THINK THAT JIM
00:10:45RHODES WOULD TREAT THE TEA PARTY
FOLKS IN THE SAME WAY AS THEY
00:10:48ARE TREATED NOW BY THE
MAINSTREAM REPUBLICANS.
00:10:51RHODES WAS A GUY WHO WANTED TO
SOLVE PROBLEMS, TO GET THINGS
00:10:57DONE.
HE WANTED TO WORK WITH THEM.
00:11:02HE DID NOT WANT TO JUST GO OUT
AND LAMBASTE THEM AND RUN FOR
00:11:06ELECTION AND SAY I AM FOR THIS
AND YOU ARE NOT.
00:11:09ELECT ME.
HE WAS MORE ABOUT GETTING THINGS
00:11:14DONE, TALKING TO THE OTHER SIDE.
AND IN THOSE DAYS THE RIGHT WING
00:11:17CONSERVATIVES, THERE WEREN'T THE
SOCIAL ISSUES THAT THERE ARE NOW
00:11:23.
IT WAS ALL BASED ON ECONOMICS.
00:11:24THE CONSERVATIVES WANTED TO CUT
THE BUDGET, THEY WANTED LESS
00:11:30GOVERNMENT AND MORE PRIVATE
SECTOR INVOLVEMENT.
00:11:32HE FIT THAT TO A T.
HE WAS FOR THAT.
00:11:39SO, HE DID THINGS THAT THEY
LIKED BUT WAS NOT A RIGHT WING
00:11:48CONSERVATIVE.
>> WHICH BRINGS UP A QUESTION I
00:11:50KNOW YOU HAVE BEEN ASKED BEFORE.
WITH A PERSONALITY HE HAD, THE
00:11:54FINANCIAL SITUATION HE WAS IN,
JUST HIS OVERALL PERSONALITY,
00:12:01THIS STATE IS LARGELY REPUBLICAN
ACCORDING TO THE LAST ELECTION.
00:12:05COULD HE BE ELECTED GOVERNOR
TODAY, IF YOU WERE ALIVE, OF
00:12:08COURSE?
>> THE ONLY REASON THAT HE COULD
00:12:12NOT BE ELECTED IS BECAUSE THINGS
HAVE MOVED ON.
00:12:14YOU DO THINGS IN A DIFFERENT
WAY.
00:12:18YOU RUN CAMPAIGNS IN A DIFFERENT
WAY.
00:12:21HIS LAST CAMPAIGN, EVEN
ACCORDING TO THE RUNNING MATE --
00:12:26HE MAY HAVE SAID THIS IN THE
FOREWORD OR IN THE BOOK, THAT
00:12:30THE CAMPAIGN THAT YEAR, 1986,
WAS PITIFUL BECAUSE THEY HAD
00:12:36VERY FEW ADVISORS.
THEY WERE NOT GOOD AT MONEY
00:12:42RAISING AT THAT POINT.
THEY WERE JUST BASICALLY TAKING
00:12:46CLIPS OUT OF THE NEWSPAPERS AND
MAKING PRESS RELEASES OUT OF
00:12:51THEIR OPINIONS.
AND THEN GOING AROUND THE STATE.
00:12:56HIS STYLE OF CAMPAIGNING JUST
WOULDN'T GET IT ANYMORE.
00:12:59I THINK THAT WOULD BE THE MAIN
BARRIER.
00:13:00I THINK WE ARE IN NEED OF
SOMEONE WHO CAN GET THINGS DONE
00:13:06IN THE WAY THAT HE DID.
>> TO LEARN MORE ABOUT THAT
00:13:11CAMPAIGN, KENT STATE, HIS
BACKGROUND, YOUR BOOK.
00:13:15THANK YOU SO MUCH, LEE LEONARD.
I APPRECIATE YOUR BEING HERE.
00:13:18>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.
I ENJOYED IT.
00:13:21>> LEONARD SAYS THE BOOK'S TITLE
"OHIO COLOSSUS" CAME FROM ONE OF
00:13:24HIS CO-AUTHORS, TOM DIEMER, WHO
THOUGHT IT A GOOD PLAY ON THE
00:13:26NAME OF THE COLOSSUS OF RHODES
STATUE, ONE OF THE SEVEN WONDERS
00:13:28OF THE ANCIENT WORLD -- AND
LEONARD SAID IT WORKS BECAUSE OF
00:13:30THE WAY JIM RHODES DOMINATED THE
POLITICAL LANDSCAPE OF OHIO.
00:13:35THE LANDSCAPE OF COLUMBUS
CHANGED FOREVER IN THE FIRST
00:13:37WEEK OF NOVEMBER 2000, WHEN AN
ICONIC BUILDING ON THE CITY'S
00:13:38EAST SIDE WAS DEMOLISHED.
THAT BUILDING WAS THE KAHIKI
00:13:41SUPPER CLUB, AND IT WAS CLOSED
EARLIER THAT YEAR, AND THAT
00:13:44SHUTDOWN MARKED AN END OF AN ERA
FOR KAHIKI FANS AROUND THE CITY,
00:13:49THE STATE AND THE COUNTRY
---INCLUDING YOURS TRULY, WHO
00:13:51WAS AMONG THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE
OVER THE YEARS WHO CHOSE THE
00:13:54KAHIKI AS THE BACKGROUND FOR
BIRTHDAY CELEBRATIONS, PROM
00:13:57NIGHT DINNERS, WEDDING
ANNIVERSARIES AND OTHER
00:13:58IMPORTANT GATHERINGS OF FAMILY
AND FRIENDS.
00:14:02THE PLACE WAS UNLIKE ANYWHERE
ELSE IN COLUMBUS -- WITH ITS
00:14:04WAITRESSES IN GRASS SKIRTS,
TORCHES LIT WITH ACTUAL FIRE,
00:14:06AQUARIUMS ON THE WALLS, TROPICAL
BIRDS, ITS FOUNTAIN IN THE FOYER
00:14:17AND THE POLYNESIAN-LOOKING HUTS
OVER SECTIONS OF THE DINING
00:14:19AREA.
I TALKED RECENTLY WITH TWO OF
00:14:21THE AUTHORS OF THE NEW BOOK "THE
KAHIKI SUPPER CLUB: A POLYNESIAN
00:14:23PARADE IN COLUMBUS", DAVID
MEYERS AND HIS DAUGHTER ELISE
00:14:25MEYERS WALKER, WHO'VE WRITTEN
SEVERAL HISTORICAL BOOKS,
00:14:27INCLUDING ONE ABOUT THE OLD OHIO
PENITENTIARY.
00:14:29I ASKED THEM ABOUT TAKING ON
THIS PROJECT WHEN SO MANY PEOPLE
00:14:31SO FONDLY REMEMBER THE KAHIKI,
OFTEN BY LOOKING AT THE UNIQUE
00:14:36DRINK MUGS THAT WERE FOR SALE IN
THE GIFT SHOP BUT WERE OFTEN
00:14:38STOLEN BY DINERS.
>> THE ORIGINAL SAID CERAMIC
00:14:47DISHES AND MUGS AND EVERYTHING,
THEY HAVE BEEN MADE ON A POTTER
00:15:01'S WHEEL.
SHE CREATED THAT IS -- THE
00:15:04DESIGNS THAT WERE COPIED.
SHE TRIED TO HAVE THEM MADE IN
00:15:06MEXICO.
MYSTERY JOINT BOWLS, LARGE, 40
00:15:11FIGURES OR SOMETHING.
WHEN THEY WERE SHIPPED FROM
00:15:16MEXICO, ONE WAS DESTROYED IN THE
SHIPMENT.
00:15:17SO, THEY HAD TO MAKE THEM
LOCALLY.
00:15:21SOME WERE MADE IN THE BASEMENT
OF THE KAHIKI, BUT THERE WERE A
00:15:29NUMBER OF DIFFERENT CERAMIC
COMPANIES INVOLVED OVER THE
00:15:31YEARS.
THE ORIGINAL STUFF, THEY DID NOT
00:15:34SELL IT.
LATER INCARNATIONS OF THE
00:15:36RESTAURANT, THEY DID THE SAME
THING IN THE GIFT SHOP.
00:15:40>> WE ARE SEEING -- SAYING THAT
ANYONE WITH AN ORIGINAL MUG, IT
00:15:43WAS SO -- STOLEN SOMEWHERE DOWN
THE LINE?
00:15:46[LAUGHTER]
NOT SAYING ANYTHING.
00:15:49THIS WAS A SUPPER CLUB,
DIFFERENT FROM A RESTAURANT.
00:15:54HE WENT THERE FOR A WHOLE
EVENING OF ENTERTAINMENT,
00:15:58DRINKS, DINNER, THE WHOLE BEALE.
YOU HAD MAYORS AND PUBLIC
00:16:02FIGURES, CELEBRITIES FROM OUT OF
TOWN CAME THERE.
00:16:06IT WAS ALSO THE SITE OF A MAJOR
CONTROVERSY BETWEEN THE COLUMBUS
00:16:08POLICE DEPARTMENT AND MEMBERS OF
THE AFRICAN-AMERICAN COMMUNITY
00:16:13IN 1975.
A CONTROVERSIAL TIME ANYWAY.
00:16:16IT STARTED OUT OVER AN UNPAID
BILL AND WOUND UP OF PHYSICAL
00:16:22ALTERCATIONS.
DOZENS OF COPS.
00:16:25THREE OF THE DINERS HAD BEEN
ACCUSED OF NOT PAYING THE BILL.
00:16:30THEY FACED CHARGES, THEY WORK
FOR -- THEY WERE CONVICTED.
00:16:32TWO POLICE OFFICERS WERE FIRED.
THERE WAS AN ORDER BY A JUDGE.
00:16:39>> ROBERT DUNCAN.
WHO WOULDN'T LATER RULE ON
00:16:43DESEGREGATION, HE ORDERED THAT
THE POLICE FORCE NEEDED TO HAVE
00:16:46A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE OF
AFRICAN-AMERICANS ON THE FORCE.
00:16:47IS IT SIGNIFICANT THAT THE
KAHIKI WAS INVOLVED IN THIS BIG
00:16:52EVENT?
>> EDITOR WAS HAPPENSTANCE.
00:16:55IF YOU LOOK AT THE KAHIKI, THEY
WERE VERY MUCH, FROM THE ONSET
00:17:01THEY HIRED LARGE PERCENTAGES OF
NONWHITE EMPLOYEES.
00:17:08MANY OF THEM WERE CUBANS.
MANY OF THEM WERE FROM HAWAII.
00:17:13MANY OF THEM WERE THE WIVES OF
SERVICEMEN THAT THEY WOULD MARRY
00:17:17OVERSEAS.
THAT WAS THE LOOK THEY WERE
00:17:21TRYING TO CREATE.
I THINK THAT THE FACT THAT THE
00:17:24INCIDENT OCCURRED THERE, IT WAS
JUST EVERYTHING KIND OF WENT
00:17:29WRONG AT ONCE.
AS YOU ALLUDED TO, IT BECAME
00:17:34VERY MUCH A POLITICAL FOOTBALL.
THERE WAS A BOYCOTT OF THE
00:17:38DISPATCH.
I THOUGHT IT WAS A WAY TO HURT
00:17:45THEM, TO GET SOMEONE TO RESPOND
TO THE SITUATION.
00:17:47YOU HAD POLICE OFFICERS THAT
WERE FIRED, POLICE OFFICERS THAT
00:17:53WERE REINSTATED.
EVERYTHING IMAGINABLE TO PLACE
00:17:56THERE.
ONCE IT STARTED, THEY WERE KIND
00:18:01OF POWERLESS TO DO ANYTHING
ABOUT IT.
00:18:02>> THERE WAS DEFINITELY AN OVER
ESCALATION OF AN INCIDENT THAT
00:18:07COULD HAVE BEEN RESOLVED
QUIETLY.
00:18:07ANY INCIDENT THAT BEGINS WITH A
DISPUTE OVER A BILL AND ENDS
00:18:12WITH PEOPLE HOSPITALIZED,
INCREDIBLY HORRIBLE ACCUSATIONS
00:18:17OF ABUSE ON BOTH SIDES.
PRETTY MUCH EVERYBODY WAS
00:18:21ACCUSING EVERYBODY OF ALL KINDS
OF THINGS.
00:18:24OBVIOUSLY THERE WAS AN OVER
ESCALATION.
00:18:25YOU COULD DEFINITELY SAY THAT
THE NUMBER OF OFFICERS THAT
00:18:30RESPONDED VERSUS WHAT THE ISSUE
WAS, IT WAS TOO HIGH.
00:18:32IT WAS AN INCREDIBLY
INAPPROPRIATE RESPONSE.
00:18:37>> THERE ARE -- THERE WAS PLENTY
OF FAULT ALL AROUND.
00:18:41>> IT WAS NOT A SITUATION THAT
NEEDED THAT.
00:18:46AS YOU SAY, IT COULD HAVE
HAPPENED ANYWHERE.
00:18:48IT WAS A MINOR THING WITH
REGARDS TO THE RESTAURANT.
00:18:55IT IS WHAT IT DID OUTSIDE THE
RESTAURANT.
00:18:56>> IT WAS A MAJOR INCIDENT FROM
THE STANDPOINT OF THE MINORITY
00:19:01COMMUNITY.
YOU HAD AFRICAN-AMERICANS WHO
00:19:05WOULD NEVER GO TO THE RESTAURANT
AFTER THAT.
00:19:06I STILL SEE THINGS ON THE
INTERNET, IT IS STILL -- THERE
00:19:15ARE STILL SOME VERY HARD
FEELINGS ABOUT THE WAY THE WHOLE
00:19:17THING PLAYED OUT.
>> I WANT TO ASK YOU AT LEAST --
00:19:22THERE WAS THIS DECISION TO CLOSE
IT.
00:19:23THE CURRENT OWNER SOLD THE
PROPERTY TO THE DRUG STORE CHAIN
00:19:29WALGREEN'S AND TORE IT DOWN.
WHAT HAS BEEN THE REACTION SINCE
00:19:31THEN?
DAVID MENTIONS THIS CULTURE,
00:19:39THERE IS A WHOLE COMMUNITY OF
PEOPLE WHO THOUGHT THAT THIS WAS
00:19:42AN INTERESTING PLACE.
>> OUR CO-AUTHOR IS HEAVILY
00:19:47INVOLVED IN THE CHARITABLE
ORGANIZATION OF THE PEOPLE THERE
00:19:51WHO ENJOY THE TIKI CULTURE AND
THEY WERE THE ONES RESPONSIBLE
00:19:55FOR BRINGING THE MOLE I -- MY
WIFE -- MOAI FROM THE KAHIKI.
00:20:04>> THAT WAS A HUGE FIREPLACE.
>> ACTUALLY, THAT WAS A SMALL
00:20:08ONE.
THEY COULD TELL YOU MUCH MORE
00:20:13ABOUT THAT.
A HUGE, HUGE FAN FOLLOWING.
00:20:17WHEN IT CLOSED, PEOPLE WERE
VERY, VERY UPSET.
00:20:22WE TAKE A MORE SYMPATHETIC STAND
IN THE BOOK.
00:20:26WE NOTICED THAT ALL THE UPSET
PEOPLE, NO ONE OFFERED TO BUY IT
00:20:32THEMSELVES.
IT WAS A DEFINITELY A HUGE
00:20:34FINANCIAL LOSS.
I LIKEN IT TO CRAIG BILL RIGHT
00:20:40NOW.
I AM BORN AND RAISED IN
00:20:43CLINTONVILLE, THAT WAS A GREAT
PLACE, BUT AT THE SAME TIME THE
00:20:46FAMILY THAT OWNED IT SAID THAT
THEY WERE RUNNING AT A LOSS FOR
00:20:4910 YEARS AND COULD NOT DO IT
ANYMORE, BUT THEY WERE GETTING A
00:20:53LOT OF BACKLASH RECLOSING
SOMETHING THAT WAS VIEWED AS AN
00:20:56INSTITUTION.
>> I THINK THAT PART OF THE
00:20:59PROBLEM IS THAT IN COLUMBUS WE
HAVE A REPUTATION FOR TEARING
00:21:02DOWN OUR HISTORY.
I THINK THAT ANYTHING LIKE THAT
00:21:07CAN BECOME A RALLYING POINT FOR
THE PRESERVATIONISTS WHO ARE
00:21:11UPSET THAT WE DON'T DO MORE TO
PRESERVE IT.
00:21:12WHEN WE TORE DOWN THE
PENITENTIARY, I DON'T KNOW WHY
00:21:16PARTS OF IT COULD NOT BE KEPT
INTACT.
00:21:18I HAVE DISCUSSED THIS BEFORE.
>> IT IS A TOUGH THING IS YOU
00:21:25TRY TO TRANSITION THINGS THAT
USED TO BE ONE THING INTO
00:21:28SOMETHING ELSE.
I AM THINKING ABOUT THE CASINO
00:21:31IN CLEVELAND, TOWER CITY.
IT WAS A UNIQUE USE OF THAT OLD
00:21:35SPACE.
BUT THEN YOU HAVE PEOPLE THAT
00:21:39DON'T LIKE IT BEING USED AS A
CASINO.
00:21:40>> THOSE PEOPLE ARE NOT STEPPING
FORWARD TO DO SOMETHING
00:21:47DIFFERENT, HOWEVER.
>> THERE WAS A PLAN TO REBUILD
00:21:50IT SOMEWHERE ELSE AND TRY AGAIN.
DID I GO ANYWHERE?
00:21:53>> I TOOK THE FINAL OWNER, WHEN
THEY HAVE THE CLOSING PARTY, HE
00:22:02SAID THAT HE WANTED TO REBUILD
IT ON THE RIVER.
00:22:04HE WAS PUTTING A LOT OF DECOR
INTO STORAGE SO THAT THEY COULD
00:22:12DO THAT.
IN THE BOOK WE ACTUALLY HAVE AN
00:22:14ARTISTS RENDERING OF WHAT THE
INTENT WAS, REBUILDING IT RIGHT
00:22:23NEXT TO THE VETERANS MEMORIAL,
WHICH THEY WERE ALSO GOING TO
00:22:26TEAR DOWN.
IF YOU LOOK AT IT, HE WAS
00:22:34OPERATING HIS FOOD BUSINESS.
THE FROZEN FOOD OPERATION DID
00:22:41NOT START MAKING A PROFIT UNTIL
2007.
00:22:43HE DID NOT HAVE THE MONEY TO PUT
INTO BUILDING A NEW RESTAURANT.
00:22:47THERE WAS NOT US -- NOT A LOT OF
SUPPORT.
00:22:50>> THEY DEFINITELY HAD A PLAN
FOR IT.
00:22:57THIS DESTINATION EXPERIENCE,
PEOPLE ARE MOVING MORE TOWARDS
00:23:13CHAIN RESTAURANTS, SOCIALIZING
WITH OTHERS, IS THERE A PLACE
00:23:19FOR THE KAHIKI ANYMORE?
>> THE ONLY PLACES I CAN THINK
00:23:29OF THAT ARE DOING THINGS LIKE
THAT ARE THE RESORT AREAS.
00:23:34THEY HAVE A RESTAURANT SHAPED
LIKE THE TITANIC TO YOU CAN EAT
00:23:42IN.
I DON'T THINK NATIONAL
00:23:50AGRI-FALLS, STILL DESTINATIONS,
LIKE THE GASTROPOD BUT, THE CHEF
00:23:58RESTAURANTS THAT ARE POPPING UP
EVERYWHERE.
00:23:59THAT IS WHERE WE ARE DEPARTING
FROM THE CHAINS RIGHT NOW.
00:24:04THAT IS OUR ALTERNATIVE.
>> WE SHOULD MENTION THAT THE
00:24:08MAI TAI INFO -- IN FORT
LAUDERDALE WAS KIND OF THE
00:24:12INSPIRATION FOR IT.
KAHIKI JUST DID IT BETTER.
00:24:15BUT IT DOES BENEFIT FROM THE
FACT THAT FLORIDA IS A TOURIST
00:24:21DESTINATION.
PEOPLE COMING FROM THE NORTH
00:24:25COMING DOWN TO A POLYNESIAN
RESTAURANT.
00:24:26BUT THAT IS NOT THE WAY THAT
USED TO BE.
00:24:30IT IS STILL STANDING.
YEAH, I THINK THAT AS SHE
00:24:34MENTIONED, IT GOES THROUGH
CYCLES.
00:24:35EVEN THOUGH THEY SAY THEY DON'T
UNDERSTAND HOW PEOPLE CAN STILL
00:24:48BE IN THE RESTAURANT BUSINESS
TODAY -- THEY WERE PRACTICALLY
00:24:51PRINTING MONEY WHEN THEY OPENED
IT.
00:24:53>> CERTAINLY IT WAS UNIQUE
PLACE, A POLYNESIAN RESTAURANT
00:24:56IN COLUMBUS.
I HAD A MILESTONE BIRTHDAY
00:25:00THERE, A PROM DINNER, EVERYTHING
ELSE, LIKE A LOT OF PEOPLE IN
00:25:02COLUMBUS DID.
IT WAS CERTAINLY A PLACE TO GO.
00:25:04VICKI BOTH FOR BEING HERE.
>> THANKS.
00:25:08>> MEYERS SAYS THE IDEA FOR THIS
BOOK CAME WHEN JEFF CHENAULT AND
00:25:10DOUG MOTZ, WHO JOINED THEM IN
CO-AUTHORING THE BOOK, URGED
00:25:12THEM TO WRITE IT, AND IT WAS
THEN THAT HE LEARNED OF THE
00:25:14KAHIKI'S APPEAL WELL BEYOND
COLUMBUS -- AND HE SAYS SALES OF
00:25:16THE BOOK AROUND THE COUNTRY AND
THE WORLD HAVE SHOWN THE
00:25:18KAHIKI'S HIGH PLACE IN TIKI
CULTURE.
00:25:22NEXT WEEK, A BIG SHOW - TWO
LONGTIME LAWMAKERS I'VE ENJOYED
00:25:25COVERING OVER THE YEARS WILL BE
LEAVING BECAUSE OF TERM LIMITS,
00:25:28BUT BEFORE THEY GO, THEY'LL SIT
DOWN FOR ONE LAST INTERVIEW.
00:25:30PROGRESSIVE DEMOCRATIC REP. BOB
HAGAN OF YOUNGSTOWN AND
00:25:34CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICAN REP.
LYNN WACHTMANN WILL BE HERE TO
00:25:37TALK ABOUT WHAT BUSINESS THEY
LEAVE BEHIND.
00:25:42BUT THAT'S IT FOR THIS WEEK.
FOR MY COLLEAGUES AT OHIO PUBLIC
00:25:44RADIO AND TELEVISION, THANKS FOR
WATCHING.
00:25:46IF YOU'D LIKE TO ASK QUESTIONS,
MAKE COMMENTS, OR WATCH THIS
00:25:48WEEK'S SHOW OR EARLIER EPISODES,
PLEASE VISIT OUR WEBSITE AT
00:25:51STATENEWS.ORG, OR WATCH ON THE
OHIO CHANNEL'S WEBSITE OR AT
00:25:54IDEASTREAM.ORG/OHIO.
AND YOU CAN FOLLOW JO INGLES,
00:25:58ANDY CHOW AND ME ON TWITTER.
AND PLEASE JOIN US AGAIN NEXT
00:26:01TIME FOR "THE STATE OF OHIO".
HAPPY THANKSGIVING.
00:26:05?
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Note : Transcripts are compiled from uncorrected captions