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00:00:00JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: GOOD
AFTERNOON.
00:00:18JOINING ME NOW IS FORMER OHIO
SUPREME COURT JUSTICE HERB
00:00:21BROWN.
00:00:22HOW ARE YOU DOING?
00:00:23FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN: I'M
DOING FINE.
00:00:25JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: GREAT.
00:00:26YOU SERVED BASICALLY FROM 1987
TO 1993 RANKED ONE TERM ONE
00:00:29TERM.
00:00:30YOU WENT TO SCHOOL AT DENISON
AND THEN THE UNIVERSITY OF
00:00:35MICHIGAN, THE SCHOOL UP NORTH
FOR LAW SCHOOL.
00:00:37YOU STARTED YOUR LAW CAREER AT
VORYS LAW FIRM.
00:00:44WHAT WAS IT LIKE TO BE AN
ASSOCIATE?
00:00:47FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN: IT
WAS REALLY INTERESTING THERE.
00:00:50I WAS THE 14TH PERSON.
00:00:52AND NOW THEY'VE GOT LIKE 205
ASSOCIATES.
00:00:55THE ONE THING I REMEMBERED---NO
LAW FIRM IN COLUMBUS HAD A
00:01:00SUMMER CLERK PROGRAM.
00:01:02ATTORNEY JOHN ELAN WAS
INTERVIEWING THIRD YEAR LAW
00:01:06STUDENTS.
00:01:07I WAS LOOKING AT A NEW YORK FIRM
FOR A SUMMER PROGRAM AND I SAW
00:01:11THIS FIRM FOR COLUMBUS.
00:01:14I ASKED TO MEET HIM.
00:01:15WE HIT IT OFF.
00:01:15I CAME DOWN FOR THE SUMMER AND
NEVER INTERVIEWED AGAIN.
00:01:18JOHN CALLED ME WITH THE OFFER TO
BE AN ASSOCIATE.
00:01:22HE OFFERED ME 250 DOLLARS A
MONTH AND I DONT THINK I JU
00:01:26SAID THE SAUERS 250 A MONTH AND
I DON'T THINK IT JUMPED UP AND
00:01:31DOWN FROM THAT.
00:01:32SO HE CALLED BACK AN HOUR LATER.
00:01:34HE SAID THE PARTNERS HAVE MET
AND WE'RE GOING TO MAKE IT $325.
00:01:37I THOUGHT THAT WAS A TERRIFIC.
00:01:38JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: A BIG PAY
RAISE.
00:01:40FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN: A BIG
PAY RAISE FEES BEFORE I STARTED.
00:01:42JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: NOW AFTER
YOU'D BEEN THERE A WHILE, YOU
00:01:44WENT TO (THE ARMY).
00:01:46WERE YOU DRAFTED OR DID YOU
VOLUNTEER?
00:01:47FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN: I
VOLUNTEERED FOR JAG.
00:01:51(JUDGE ADVOCATE GENERALS CORP).
00:01:54THAT WAS AFTER THE SUMMER CLERK
PROGRAM.
00:01:55WELL, I DID HAVE SIX MONTHS AS
AN ASSOCIATE.
00:01:58BUT I KNEW THE VIETNAM WAR WAS
STILL ON AND I HAD TO MAKE A
00:02:01MILITARY COMMITMENT.
00:02:03I LEFT FOR THREE YEARS AND CAME
BACK.
00:02:05JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: DID YOU
ENJOY IT, JAG?
00:02:07FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN: I
LOVED IT.
00:02:10THE CASES I GOT INTO WERE IN THE
DEFENSE APPELLATE DIVISION.
00:02:14(THE DIVISION) ARGUED ANY CASE
WHERE YOU GET A DISHONORABLE
00:02:18DISCHARGE OVER A YEAR'S
SENTENCE.
00:02:20YOU GO TO THE BOARD OF REVIEW
AND THEN TO THE COURT OF
00:02:22MILITARY APPEALS WHICH IS A
PRETTY CREDIBLE COURT.
00:02:25A FORMER GOVERNOR OF MICHIGAN, A
FORMER SENATOR FROM RHODE
00:02:28ISLAND, WERE ON IT.
00:02:29(WHILE) GOING DOWN TO ONE OF THE
BOARD OF REVIEW HEARINGS ONE
00:02:35DAY, ONE OF THE COLONELS
FOLLOWED ME AND SAID, LIEUTENANT
00:02:40BROWN, YOU HAVE SOMETHING UNIQUE
THAT MOST PEOPLE YOUR AGE DON'T
00:02:45HAVE.
00:02:45I THOUGHT WHAT IS THAT?
00:02:47HE SAID CLIENTS.
00:02:49JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: THAT'S
TRUE.
00:02:51THE OTHER SIDE IS THE UNITED
STATES.
00:02:53FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN: SO
YOU HAD A LOT OF CASES.
00:02:55JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: THATS
GOOD.
00:02:57PROBABLY WAS ENJOYABLE.
00:02:58FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN: AND
IT WAS APPELLATE WORK, WHICH I
00:03:02LIKED.
00:03:03JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: YOU CAME
BACK TO VORYS (LAW FIRM).
00:03:04YOU SPENT A LONG TIME THERE.
00:03:05YOU MADE PARTNER IN 1965 AND YOU
STAYED THERE UNTIL 1982.
00:03:09RIGHT?
00:03:10FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN: YES.
00:03:11JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: SO YOU HAD
BASICALLY 22 YEARS THERE?
00:03:15FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN: YES.
00:03:16JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: DURING THAT
TIME, YOU WERE INVOLVED WITH THE
00:03:20BAR EXAM.
00:03:21TELL US ABOUT THAT.
00:03:22FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN: WELL
I WAS A BAR EXAMINER AND THEN I
00:03:29WAS PUT ON THE MULTI-STATE
EVIDENCE COMMITTEE.
00:03:32JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: DID YOU
ENJOY READING ALL THOSE
00:03:35HANDWRITTEN (TRAILS OFF)?
00:03:37FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN: THAT
WAS A CHORE.
00:03:38AND THAT WAS IN THE DAY WHEN YOU
READ THEM ALL.
00:03:41OK.
00:03:42THERE WAS NO FREE PASS WHEN YOU
SCORED SO WELL ON SOME
00:03:47QUESTIONS.
00:03:48JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: DID YOU
CORRECT ANY OF THE WRITING.
00:03:50FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN: NO I
JUST GAVE IT A NUMBER.
00:03:56JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: I
UNDERSTAND YOUR FIRST FORAY INTO
00:04:01PUBLIC SERVICE WAS, LIKE ME,
WITH A LOSS.
00:04:04IT WAS FOR THE HOUSE OF
REPRESENTATIVES?
00:04:07FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN: YES
AND THAT'S AN INTERESTING STORY.
00:04:11WELL, I WAS UP ON A SKI WEEKEND
AT MANSFIELD AND ON SUNDAY
00:04:18MORNING I SEE THE COLUMBUS
DISPATCH AND I SEE MY NAME
00:04:23LISTED AS THE CANDIDATE.
00:04:25I THINK IT WAS A 58TH DISTRICT.
00:04:27THIS WAS THE FIRST YEAR THEY HAD
NOT RUN AT-LARGE IN FRANKLIN
00:04:33COUNTY AND THAT TURNED OUT TO BE
THE MOST REPUBLICAN DISTRICT IN
00:04:37THE STATE.
00:04:38BUT I WENT INTO ART VORYS
OFFICE ON MONDAY AND TOLD HIM.
00:04:41HE WAS PRETTY ACTIVE IN THE
REPUBLICAN PARTY.
00:04:45HE SAYS ABSOLUTELY DO THAT
(RUN).
00:04:48IT'LL BE GREAT FOR YOU AS A
YOUNG LAWYER AND HE SAYS GO DOWN
00:04:53AND TELL THE DEMOCRATIC CHAIRMAN
THAT YOU'RE NOT GOING TO GIVE
00:04:56HIM ANY MONEY.
00:04:57THEY WANTED MONEY FOR ADS AND
YOU'RE OFFENDED THAT THEY PUT
00:05:00YOUR NAME IN THE PAPER WITHOUT
TELLING YOU.
00:05:02SO THAT'S HOW IT HAPPENED.
00:05:04JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: THEY KNEW
YOU AND THEY THOUGHT THAT YOUD
00:05:06BE?
00:05:07FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN: THEY
THOUGHT THE NAME WAS GOOD.
00:05:08JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: OK LET'S GO
BACK TO THE BEGINNING BECAUSE
00:05:11YOU HAVE AN INTERESTING STORY TO
TELL.
00:05:14I UNDERSTAND THAT YOU NEVER
REALLY CONTEMPLATED RUNNING FOR
00:05:18THE SUPREME COURT UNTIL MUCH
LATER?
00:05:20FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN: I
DIDNT AND THERE'S A STORY
00:05:24BEHIND THAT TOO.
00:05:26WHEN I RAN FOR THE LEGISLATURE,
C.
00:05:31WILLIAM O'NEILL, WHO WAS THE
CHIEF JUSTICE, WAS A MEMBER OF
00:05:34MY CHURCH.
00:05:34AFTER CHURCH, HE SAID HERB YOU
ARE RUNNING FOR THE WRONG
00:05:39OFFICE.
00:05:40YOU SHOULD HAVE RUN FOR SUPREME
COURT BECAUSE THE NAME FACTOR.
00:05:45AND SO I WAS INVOLVED IN TRYING
TO GET A NOVEL PUBLISHED.
00:05:50I WROTE 12 (BOOKS) BEFORE I GOT
ONE PUBLISHED AND I WAS
00:05:54STRUGGLING WITH THAT.
00:05:55WHEN GEORGE JENKINS CALLED AND
SAID THERE'S AN OPEN SEAT ON THE
00:05:59SUPREME COURT.
00:06:01I CAN GET PEOPLE TO HELP YOU.
00:06:03I THINK YOU OUGHT TO RUN FOR IT.
00:06:05AND I DECIDED I WOULD DO THAT.
00:06:07JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: THAT WAS A
THREE PERSON RACE?
00:06:08FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN: IT
WAS A THREE PERSON RACE.
00:06:09I'D GOTTEN A GOOD AGENT FOR A
NOVEL.
00:06:11IT DIDN'T SELL IT BUT I HAD
TAKEN A LEAVE FROM VORYS TO
00:06:19PURSUE THAT.
00:06:19JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: THIS WAS
1986, RIGHT?
00:06:22FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN: YES.
00:06:23JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: AND YOU'D
LEFT IN 82?
00:06:26FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN: I WAS
OFF THREE YEARS ON THE CALENDAR.
00:06:30JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: BUT YOU
WEREN'T ENDORSED DEMOCRATIC?
00:06:33FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN: NO I
WAS NOT.
00:06:35I COULD HAVE BEEN ENDORSED HAD I
RAN AGAINST BOB HOLMES.
00:06:39JOHN ELAM AND OTHER PEOPLE THAT
WERE HELPING ME SAID DON'T DO
00:06:44THAT BECAUSE YOUR STRENGTH WILL
BE IN COLUMBUS WHERE BOB IS
00:06:49POPULAR.
00:06:49SO I DECIDED TO RUN AGAINST DON
FORD WHO IS ALSO MICHIGAN
00:06:53GRADUATE IN MY CLASS.
00:06:54JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: REALLY.
00:06:55HOW DID YOU DO THAT?
00:06:58WELL, THAT WAS THE ONLY OTHER
OPEN SEAT RIGHT?
00:07:00FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN: THAT
WAS THE ONLY OPEN SEAT.
00:07:03AND I HAD MY MANAGER JOHN
KULEWICZ.
00:07:06(HE WAS A) REAL YOUNG LAWYER AND
HE HAD MANAGED GARY HART'S
00:07:10PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN.
00:07:11HE KNOCKED OFF (WALTER) MONDALE
IN OHIO WAS REALLY BEEN A BIG
00:07:16UPSET.
00:07:16HE HAD PEOPLE ALL OVER THE
STATE.
00:07:19HE AGREED TO MANAGE MY CAMPAIGN
AND HE BROUGHT ALL THOSE PEOPLE
00:07:23BECAUSE, AT THAT TIME, (GARY)
HART WAS VIEWED AS VIABLE.
00:07:26JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: THAT WAS
BEFORE THE MONKEY BUSINESS?
00:07:28FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN: IT
WAS BEFORE MONKEY BUSINESS.
00:07:33YEAH.
00:07:34SO I IT WASN'T LIKE I WAS
TOTALLY WITHOUT SOME CARDS.
00:07:36JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: NOW IT WAS
CLIFFORD BROWNS SEAT, RIGHT?
00:07:38FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN: IT
WAS CLIFFORD BROWN SEAT.
00:07:40JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: BUT HE
WASN'T RUNNING, RIGHT?
00:07:42FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN: HE
WAS NOT RUNNING, NO.
00:07:44JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: HE WAS HE
AGED OUT OR RETIRING?
00:07:47FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN: YES I
THINK HE WAS AGED OUT BECAUSE HE
00:07:49WOULD VERY MUCH LIKE TO STAY ON.
00:07:51IN FACT, HE DIDN'T GET OUT OF
HIS OFFICE TILL THE FIRST DAY I
00:07:54WAS UP THERE AND HE KEPT COMING
BACK.
00:07:57JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: HE DIDN'T
HAVE ANYTHING ELSE TO DO.
00:08:03FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN: HE
DIDNT HAVE ANYTHING ELSE TO DO.
00:08:04JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: YOU ONCE
DESCRIBED THE SUPREME COURT OF
00:08:06OHIO AS ONE OF MOST INTERESTING
REWARDING AND CHALLENGING JOBS
00:08:09IN YOUR LIFE?
00:08:10FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN:
THAT'S TRUE.
00:08:12THAT WAS TRUE TO A POINT.
00:08:14I THINK WRITING PLAYS NOW WOULD
BE UP THERE.
00:08:17BUT CERTAINLY IN THE LEGAL
FIELD, IT WAS.
00:08:21THE OHIO SUPREME COURT IS
UNDER-RATED ACADEMICALLY.
00:08:25JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: BECAUSE YOU
WORK HARD, DON'T YOU?
00:08:28FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN: WELL,
YOU GOT TO WORK HARD AND THE
00:08:33CASES.
00:08:33BECAUSE OF YOU'RE ONLY TAKING
ONE OUT OF 12 (CASES).
00:08:36I DONT KNOW WHAT IT IS NOW.
00:08:39JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: ONE OUT OF
20.
00:08:41FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN: SO
YOU'RE SELECTING INTERESTING,
00:08:44CLOSE CASES.
00:08:45AND AT THE TIME, I HAD A GOOD
FRIEND, VAL NORRIS, WHO WAS ON
00:08:48THE 6TH CIRCUIT.
00:08:49HE SAID, HALF OUR STUFF IS
CRIMINAL APPEALS DRUG CASES AND
00:08:54STUFF.
00:08:55THE OHIO SUPREME COURT WAS A FAR
MORE INTERESTING THING THAN
00:08:59THAT.
00:09:00AND IF YOU THINK OF THE SUBJECTS
TAUGHT IN LAW SCHOOL, 90 PERCENT
00:09:04OF THEM ARE RESOLVED BY STATE
DECISIONS.
00:09:07JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: DID YOU
EVER, PRIOR TO THE EARLY 80S,
00:09:14DID YOU EVER THINK YOU WANTED TO
BE A JUDGE?
00:09:17FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN: NOT
REALLY.
00:09:19JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: I MEAN, I
THINK IT PASSES THE MIND OF MOST
00:09:21LAWYERS CERTAINLY LITIGATORS.
00:09:24FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN:
ACTUALLY, JUSTICE O'NEILL'S
00:09:28COMMENT PUT IT IN MY MIND.
00:09:29JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: THATS
GOOD.
00:09:31SOME OF YOUR COLLEAGUES HAVE
CALLED YOU CAPABLE, WITH
00:09:38INTEGRITY, AND WITH
IMPARTIALITY. WAS THAT
00:09:43SOMETHING YOU TRIED TO?
00:09:44FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN: I
THINK I WAS HELPED BY THE
00:09:48DEMOGRAPHICS OF THE COURT.
00:09:50THERE WERE ON THE POLITICAL
CONTROVERSIAL CASES, THERE WERE
00:09:55THREE VOTES.
00:09:56SOLID ON ONE SIDE AND IT WASNT
PARTY.
00:10:00THERE WERE (JUSTICES) BOB
HOLMES, TOM MOYER, AND CRAIG
00:10:05WRIGHT.
00:10:07ON THE OTHER SIDE WERE
(JUSTICES) FRANCIS SWEENEY ALICE
00:10:11RESNICK AND ANDY DOUGLAS, A
REPUBLICAN.
00:10:14THE DAILY REPORTER DID A SURVEY
OF CASES.
00:10:16I GOT TO DECIDE 95-PERCENT OF
EVERYTHING.
00:10:20I WAS A SWING VOTE.
00:10:22JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: YOU WERE
THE SWING VOTE, WELL TALK ABOUT
00:10:23THAT IN A MINUTE.
00:10:24ONE OF YOUR OPINIONS FROM 1992
WAS STATE VS.
00:10:28WYATT.
00:10:28IT HAD TO DO WITH HATE CRIMES.
00:10:30CAN YOU TELL US ABOUT THAT
BECAUSE THAT WAS PRETTY
00:10:32PROMINENT?
00:10:32IT WENT UP TO THE SUPREME COURT.
00:10:34FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN: IT
WAS A FASCINATING CASE AND I
00:10:37WRESTLED THIS WAY IN THAT WAY.
00:10:39I CAME DOWN THINKING THAT THE
LAW WAS UNCONSTITUTIONAL BECAUSE
00:10:45IT SEEMED TO ME THAT HATE IS
INVOLVED IN A NUMBER OF MURDERS.
00:10:52IT CAN BE BECAUSE SOMEONE'S FAT.
00:10:54JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: ANGRY AT A
SPOUSE.
00:10:56FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN:
SLEEPING WITH YOUR WIFE.
00:10:57TO SHORTEN IT DOWN, YOU'RE
CRIMINALIZING MOTIVE.
00:10:59AND I THOUGHT IT WAS
UNCONSTITUTIONAL.
00:11:05JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: YOU WROTE
THE MAJORITY OPINION IN OHIO.
00:11:15AND THE SUPREMES DISAGREED.
00:11:17FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN: THEY
DISAGREED.
00:11:19THEY REVERSED A CASE OUT OF
WISCONSIN AND THEN JUST BY A ONE
00:11:23LINER TOOK CARE OF US.
00:11:24JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: IT HAPPENS.
00:11:26AT THE TIME YOU WERE ON THE
COURT, THERE WAS A LOT OF
00:11:31CONTROVERSY ABOUT THE DEATH
PENALTY.
00:11:34CAN YOU TELL US YOUR THOUGHTS ON
THE DEATH PENALTY?
00:11:37FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN: MY
THOUGHTS WERE AND ARE THAT THE
00:11:42DEATH PENALTY IS COSTLY, ITS
BURDENSOME TO THE COURTS.
00:11:45AT THAT TIME, WE HAD TO REVIEW
THEM ALL, THEY CAME THROUGH THE
00:11:49COURT OF APPEALS, AND PEOPLE
WERE NOT BEING EXECUTED.
00:11:56THERE WERE PEOPLE WHO HAD BEEN
IN PRISON 20-30 YEARS AND I WAS
00:12:00OPPOSED TO IT BECAUSE I FELT IT
WAS DISCRIMINATORY.
00:12:06BUT WHEN I RAN, MY POSITION ON
THAT WAS THAT'S THE LAW OF THE
00:12:11STATE.
00:12:13AND IT'S NOT UP TO ME TO CHANGE
IT.
00:12:15SO I VOTED FOR DEATH PENALTY
CASES.
00:12:20CRAIG WRIGHT WAS THE MOST
RELUCTANT TO VOTE FOR THOSE BUT
00:12:24I DID KIND OF MAKE IT A RULE IF
THERE WAS AN ARGUMENT.
00:12:28IF IT WAS 3-3, I WASNT GOING TO
BE THE FOURTH TO PUT SOMEBODY
00:12:32AWAY.
00:12:32JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: IT IS, FROM
MY EXPERIENCE, IT'S THE TYPE OF
00:12:37CASES THAT MAKE YOU THINK ABOUT
IT AT NIGHT AND YOU THINK ABOUT
00:12:43IT QUITE INTENSELY.
00:12:45FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN: QUITE
INTENSELY.
00:12:47THERE WAS ONE CASE I DO
REMEMBER, IT WAS APONOVICH.
00:12:50IT WAS A DEFENDANT UP IN
CLEVELAND.
00:12:52I WROTE THE DISSENT ON IT.
00:12:55IT WAS A CLOSE CASE AND THERE
WAS A QUESTION OF DNA EVIDENCE.
00:12:59JUST FIVE YEARS AGO, HE GOT
FREED.
00:13:06JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: OH WOW.
00:13:07FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN: I
FELT REALLY GOOD JUSTIFIED
00:13:10THERE.
00:13:11THE EVIDENCE WAS DISCOVERED THAT
LED TO FREEDOM.
00:13:13JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: AT THE
DEDICATION OF YOUR PORTRAIT,
00:13:15DOWN AT FIRST FLOOR, I BELIEVE
IT WAS TOM MOYER.
00:13:19FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN: I HAD
A GREAT RELATIONSHIP WITH HIM.
00:13:22I REALLY LIKED HIM.
00:13:23WE WERE VERY GOOD FRIENDS.
00:13:24HE PUT IT DOWN THERE.
00:13:26JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: BUT YOU
ASKED JUSTICE (ALICE) REZNICK TO
00:13:29SPEAK AND SHE WAS TOUCHED BY
YOUR REQUEST.
00:13:32SHE SAID HERBS SENSE OF
FAIRNESS WAS LEGENDARY.
00:13:38HE NEVER APPROACHED A CASE WITH
A PRECONCEIVED IDEA.
00:13:41I WAS IMPRESSED WITH THAT
QUALITY IN (HIM) THAT (HE) WERE
00:13:44REMARKABLE TO WORK WITH
CLOSELY. FORMER JUSTICE HERB
00:13:47BROWN: I HAD FORGOTTEN THAT I
ASKED HER BECAUSE I FELT THAT
00:13:53MAYBE I HAD TO HONOR THE
POLITICAL PARTY AND I FELT
00:13:58SYMPATHY FOR.
00:13:59JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: WERE YOU
FRIENDS?
00:14:00FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN: I
WOULDN'T SAY REALLY CLOSE, I
00:14:03ACTUALLY WAS PROBABLY CLOSER
WITH TOM SAWYER.
00:14:06JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: I ALSO
UNDERSTAND YOU WERE FRIENDS WITH
00:14:08CRAIG WRIGHT?
00:14:09FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN: VERY
CLOSE.
00:14:12JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: YOUR
OFFICES WERE RIGHT NEXT DOOR AND
00:14:15YOUR CLERKS HUNG OUT?
00:14:16FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN: WE
WOULD BET ON BALL GAMES.
00:14:17JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: IS THAT
RIGHT?
00:14:18FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN: CRAIG
WAS A VERY SMART GUY.
00:14:20JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: OK.
00:14:20TELL US HOW YOUR FRIENDSHIP
DEVELOPED WITH CRAIG.
00:14:22FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN: WELL,
IT STARTED OUT A LITTLE BIT
00:14:25ANTAGONISTIC.
00:14:27HE WAS THE JUDGE IN THE GUCCIONE
LIBEL CASE.
00:14:32I GOT IRRITATED DURING THAT
CASE.
00:14:35I WAS THE LOCAL COUNCIL THERE
WAS A NEW YORK LAWYER.
00:14:41WE HAD A WITNESS ON AS THE JURY
WAS PARADING OUT.
00:14:46CRAIG SAYS, SO A COUPLE OF THEM
COULD HEAR, THAT'S THE BIGGEST
00:14:50LIAR I EVER SAW.
00:14:51AND AT FIRST, HE DENIED SAYING
IT.
00:14:54THEN HE GOT VERY HUMBLE ABOUT IT
AND TRIED TO SAY SAY SOMETHING
00:14:58ABOUT IT IN (JURY) INSTRUCTIONS.
00:15:02BUT IT LEFT ME A BAD FEELING.
00:15:03BUT WHEN WE GOT ON THE COURT, WE
BECAME VERY GOOD FRIENDS FROM
00:15:07DISCUSSIONS OR COMMON INTEREST.
00:15:10JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: FROM
DISCUSSIONS?
00:15:13FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN:
COMMON SUBJECTS.
00:15:14HE LIKED SPORTS AND WE WERE VERY
MUCH TOGETHER ON THE CRIMINAL
00:15:16STUFF.
00:15:16JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: 1993, YOU
DECIDED TO LEAVE.
00:15:19YOU COULD HAVE RUN AGAIN.
00:15:20IN FACT, YOU COULD HAVE RUN
TWICE MORE.
00:15:21FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN: I
COULD HAVE.
00:15:23JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: AND YOU
DECIDED NOT TO.
00:15:26FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN: THAT
WAS BECAUSE I HAD SOLD A NOVEL.
00:15:30JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: LET ME READ
YOU WHAT YOU OFFICIALLY STATED.
00:15:33FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN: OK, I
MAY HAVE TO AMEND THAT.
00:15:35JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: QUOTE I'VE
HAD A LONGSTANDING 17 YEAR
00:15:39INTEREST IN WRITING FICTION.
00:15:41I'M NOW IN THAT GAME HAVING
PUBLISHED.
00:15:44I LOOKED AT A SUPREME COURT TERM
WHICH WOULD END WHEN I'M 67 AND
00:15:48WHO KNOWS HOW MUCH ENERGY I HAVE
AT THAT POINT?
00:15:50FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN: I'M
STILL ASKING MYSELF THAT
00:15:52QUESTION.
00:15:53JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: WELL,
THAT'S 25 YEARS AGO.
00:15:56YOU OBVIOUSLY HAD PLENTY OF
ENERGY.
00:15:58FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN: WELL,
THE OLDER YOU GET, THE MORE YOU
00:16:02QUESTION THAT.
00:16:03JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: I AGREE
WITH THAT.
00:16:04AND YOU KNOW WHAT ELSE I FOUND
OUT?
00:16:05IT REALLY SADDENED CHIEF JUSTICE
MOYER THAT YOU WERE NOT RUNNING.
00:16:11DID HE SAY ANYTHING TO YOU?
00:16:12FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN: YES.
00:16:13AND HE EVEN SPOKE PUBLICLY ABOUT
IT.
00:16:15JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: WHAT DID HE
SAY?
00:16:19FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN:
THINGS LIKE, ID LIKE TO
00:16:20PERSUADE HERB TO RUN AGAIN.
00:16:22JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: HE COULDN'T
DO IT?
00:16:24FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN: NO.
00:16:27YOU WOULD UNDERSTAND THIS.
00:16:30THERE'S A PASSION ABOUT RUNNING
FOR POLITICAL OFFICE.
00:16:34JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: YOU'VE GOT
TO HAVE THE ENERGY.
00:16:37FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN:
YOU'VE GOT TO HAVE THE ENERGY
00:16:38AND THERE'S AN ENERGY IN IT.
00:16:39THE SAME THING IS TRUE OF
WRITING.
00:16:40JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: AND YOURE
PASSIONATE ABOUT WRITING?
00:16:43FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN: ONCE
YOUR PATIENCE GETS HOOKED, IT'S
00:16:46HARD TO GET AWAY FROM IT.
00:16:48JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: SO YOU'RE
WRITING THESE DAYS?
00:16:50IN FACT, WE HAVE TWO OF HIS
NOVELS HERE.
00:16:52PRESUMPTION OF GUILT, WHICH
WAS PUBLISHED IN 1991.
00:16:53FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN: YES,
NOT MY TITLE.
00:16:54JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: SHADOWS OF
DOUBT PUBLISHED IN 1994 AND
00:16:56POWER OF GOD.
00:16:56FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN: THAT
WAS A PLAY.
00:16:58JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: OK.
00:16:58WHY DID YOU LIKE TO WRITE
NOVELS?
00:17:00FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN:
THATS SOMETHING THAT ID ALWAYS
00:17:01THOUGHT OF.
00:17:02AT ONE POINT, I WANTED TO BE A
SPORTS WRITER.
00:17:03I DID A LOT OF JOURNALISM IN
HIGH SCHOOL AND COLLEGE.
00:17:07JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: BY THE WAY,
I DID THE SAME FOR THE HIGH
00:17:20SCHOOL PAPER.
00:17:22AT ST. XAVIER HIGH SCHOOL.
00:17:26I WAS THE STRINGER FOR THE HIGH
SCHOOL PAPER.
00:17:29FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN: I WAS
A STRINGER FOR THE OLD COLUMBUS
00:17:38CITIZEN.
00:17:38I ENJOYED IT.
00:17:41I GOT A COUPLE OF BYLINES.
00:17:43JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: WHEN YOU'RE
IN HIGH SCHOOL, THATS A BIG
00:17:45DEAL FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN:
THEY PAID ME FIFTY BUCKS FOR THE
00:17:48SEASON.
00:17:49JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: SO YOU
MOVED TO PLAYS.
00:17:52POWER OF GOD. FORMER JUSTICE
HERB BROWN: THAT WAS A SHORT.
00:17:55JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: OK.
00:17:56IT WAS A SHORT BUT THEN THE ONE
I KNEW FIRST WHEN I HEARD YOUR
00:17:58NAME SIGNED WITH WAS YOUR MY
BOY.
00:18:00YES.
00:18:01TELL THE CITIZENS OF OHIO ABOUT
THAT.
00:18:03FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN: WELL,
THAT PLAY IS STILL KICKING
00:18:07AROUND.
00:18:07THERE'S A PRODUCER IN NEW YORK,
HASN'T DONE ANYTHING FOR A
00:18:11WHILE.
00:18:12HE'S TRYING TO GET SOMETHING
DONE ON IT.
00:18:14IT'S A PLAY BASICALLY ABOUT THE
RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN (PRESIDENT
00:18:17RICHARD) NIXON AND (PRESIDENT
DWIGHT) EISENHOWER.
00:18:19THEY DIDN'T KNOW EACH OTHER.
00:18:20THE TICKET WAS PUT TOGETHER BY
THOMAS DEWEY WHO HAD BEEN THE
00:18:25STANDARD BEARER OF THE PREVIOUS
TWO TIMES AND WAS GOVERNOR OF
00:18:27NEW YORK.
00:18:28HE THOUGHT NIXON WAS UP AND
COMING.
00:18:31NIXON WAS ONLY SIX YEARS OUT OF
THE NAVY AND, IN THAT TIME, HE'D
00:18:36BEATEN A FIVE TERM CONGRESSMAN.
00:18:37THEN, WHEN HE RAN FOR REELECTION
AS A CONGRESSMAN HE CROSS-FILED.
00:18:47THIS IS SOMETHING HARDLY ANYONE
KNOWS AND HE WON THE DEMOCRATIC
00:18:50PRIMARY.
00:18:50JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: IS THAT
RIGHT?
00:18:53FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN: SO HE
WAS UNOPPOSED IN THE GENERAL
00:18:57ELECTION.
00:18:57AND THEN TWO YEARS AFTER THAT HE
DEFEATED HELEN GAHAGAN DOUGLAS
00:18:59FOR THE SENATE, HE GOT INVOLVED
IN THE ALGER HISS MATTER AND GOT
00:19:03A LOT OF PUBLICITY.
00:19:05AND SIX YEARS OUT OF THE NAVY,
HE'S VICE PRESIDENT OF THE
00:19:08UNITED STATES.
00:19:09JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: VERSUS
SOMEBODY WHO WOULD RUN THE WAR?
00:19:11THE EUROPEAN WAR.
00:19:12FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN: WELL,
HE WORKED ON THE TICKET WITH
00:19:16THAT PERSON.
00:19:17BUT BECAUSE EISENHOWER DIDN'T
KNOW HIM.
00:19:19NIXON HAD THE PERFECT
OPPORTUNITY TO MOVE UP TO
00:19:21PRESIDENT IF HE WINS
EISENHOWER'S SUPPORT.
00:19:25THEY WERE VERY DIFFERENT PEOPLE.
00:19:27AND NIXON IS HUMILIATED IN ONE
CRISIS AFTER ANOTHER.
00:19:30JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: IT
OBVIOUSLY ENERGIZES YOU.
00:19:34WHY?
00:19:34FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN:
BECAUSE THE SLIGHTS THAT NIXON
00:19:39FEELS.
00:19:39EISENHOWER WANTED TO MOVE HIM
INTO THE CABINET WHEN HE RAN FOR
00:19:43RE-ELECTION.
00:19:43(EISENHOWERS CHIEF OF STAFF)
SHERMAN ADAMS WAS VERY MUCH IN
00:19:46HIS EAR TRYING TO GET HIM TO DO
THAT.
00:19:47NIXON GIVES EVERYTHING HE CAN TO
WIN EISENHOWER'S APPROVAL AND
00:19:54DOESN'T SUCCEED IN DOING IT.
00:19:55AND EISENHOWER SAID TO DEWEY AT
ONE POINT, ALL HE THINKS ABOUT
00:20:01IS POLITICS.
00:20:02NIXON WAS A MASTER POLITICIAN.
00:20:04EISENHOWER WAS VERY NAIVE AND
USED NIXON FOR POLITICAL STUFF.
00:20:10SO IT'S AN INTERESTING LOOK AT
THE PRESIDENCY WHERE POLITICAL
00:20:13SKILLS ARE SOMETIMES
UNDERVALUED.
00:20:16A PRESIDENT CAN'T DO ANYTHING
UNLESS HE HAS POLITICAL SKILLS
00:20:20POLITICAL CAPITAL THAT IF YOU'RE
ALL POLITICS THAT'S NOT GOOD
00:20:24EITHER.
00:20:25SO IT'S INTERESTING IN THAT
RESPECT.
00:20:27NIXON COMES IN AS AN IDEALISTIC
YOUNG POLITICIAN.
00:20:30I'M NOT SAYING THAT THERE
WEREN'T LATENT TENDENCIES THERE
00:20:39BUT I THINK THE CRUCIBLE OF
BEING HUMILIATED OVER AND OVER
00:20:46BY EISENHOWER.
00:20:47IN THE CAMPAIGN AGAINST KENNEDY,
EISENHOWER SAID GIVE ME A WEEK
00:20:51TO THINK ABOUT.
00:20:52IT TURNS HIM INTO THE MORE
BITTER PARANOID NIXON OF
00:20:57WATERGATE.
00:20:58AND I THINK THAT TRANSFORMATION
IS INTERESTING.
00:21:03JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: VERY.
00:21:05WHY DID YOU DECIDE TO BECOME A
WRITER AND GIVE UP PRETTY GOOD
00:21:10LEGAL CAREER?
00:21:11FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN: YEAH.
00:21:13THAT WAS NOT EXACTLY RATIONAL.
00:21:16I SAY IT WENT WAY BACK.
00:21:18I ALWAYS KIND OF WANT TO BE A
WRITER FROM YOUR HIGH SCHOOL.
00:21:21JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: YOU HIGH
SCHOOL DAYS?
00:21:24NOW I ALSO UNDERSTAND THAT YOUR
FAVORITE BOOK WAS BY A.
00:21:27A.
00:21:28MILNE?
00:21:28FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN: YEAH,
WINNIE THE POOH. JUSTICE PAT
00:21:30FISCHER: TELL THE PEOPLE WHY.
00:21:30FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN: THE
CHARACTERS ARE SO HUMAN.
00:21:35MY FAVORITE CHARACTER IS EEYORE
THE DONKEY.
00:21:38JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: I HAVE A
FRIEND.
00:21:40WE CALL HIM EEYORE.
00:21:41HES ALWAYS NEGATIVE ABOUT
ALWAYS.
00:21:42FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN:
YOURE RIGHT.
00:21:44AND TIGGER.
00:21:46VERY BOUNCY.
00:21:49HOW ABOUT ELIZABETH WARREN FOR
TIGGER JUMPING UP AND DOWN?
00:21:53JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: YOU SAY YOU
LIKE PLAYS BETTER THAN BOOKS.
00:21:57YOU'VE WRITTEN BOTH?
00:21:58FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN: I
LIKED WRITING DIALOGUE IN THE
00:22:00NOVELS.
00:22:01JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: HOW DO YOU
COME UP WITH YOUR IDEAS?
00:22:03FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN: IT
HAS TO GRAB HOLD OF YOU.
00:22:07JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: WHAT DO YOU
MEAN?
00:22:08FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN: IT
HAS TO BE SOMETHING THAT YOU
00:22:11RELATE TO EMOTIONALLY.
00:22:12THE LAST PLAY I DID, WHICH IS
MORE WAS MORE SERIOUS, WAS THE
00:22:13RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN HENRY AND
EDSEL FORD.
00:22:15THE FATHER-SON (RELATIONSHIP),
HE WAS A VERY ABUSIVE, A TOUGH
00:22:16GUY, AND HE DIDN'T REALLY
RECOGNIZE THE STRENGTHS THAT
00:22:28EDSEL.
00:22:29EDSEL ACTUALLY SAVED THE COMPANY
TIME AFTER TIME.
00:22:33JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: THE COMPANY
SEEMS TO BE DOING PRETTY GOOD
00:22:36NOW.
00:22:37YOU EVER MISS BEING ON THE
SUPREME COURT?
00:22:39FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN: OH
YEAH I DO.
00:22:41JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: WHY?
00:22:42FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN: I
MISS THE COMRADERY, WHICH WAS
00:22:45ACTUALLY PRETTY GOOD WHEN I WAS
THERE.
00:22:47JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: STILL IS.
00:22:48FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN: IS
IT?
00:22:50THATS GOOD TO HERE.
00:22:51I MISS THE CHALLENGE OF THE
DECISIONS BUT YOU CAN'T DO
00:22:56EVERYTHING.
00:22:57JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: NO, YOU
CANT.
00:22:59YOU SAID YOU BECOME CLOSE WITH
TOM.
00:23:01WERE YOU?
00:23:02FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN: YES.
00:23:03JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: WHY IS
THAT?
00:23:04HOW DID THAT DEVELOP?
00:23:05FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN: WED
BEEN PRETTY FRIENDLY BEFORE HE
00:23:07WAS ON THE COURT.
00:23:08I DON'T KNOW, I THINK WE JUST
SORT OF HIT IT OFF.
00:23:12OUR PERSONALITIES ARE SOMEWHAT
SIMILAR, A LITTLE BIT LAID BACK.
00:23:15I DONT WANT TO GET TOO DEEP
INTO THIS BUT HE WAS HAVING
00:23:23TROUBLE WITH ANDY (DOUGLAS).
00:23:26HE WAS WALKING OUT AT
CONFERENCE.
00:23:28WE TALKED A LOT ABOUT THAT AND I
THINK THAT I WAS A SOURCE OF
00:23:35HELP TO HIM.
00:23:36JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: GOOD.
00:23:37CAN YOU TELL US SOME OF YOUR
BEST MEMORIES OF BEING ON THE
00:23:40COURT?
00:23:40FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN: MY
FAVORITE ASPECT OF THE JOB WAS
00:23:45ORAL ARGUMENTS.
00:23:46I LOVED, WHILE STRUGGLING WITH
THE SAME ISSUES, YOU COULD GO
00:23:50INTO ANOTHER JUSTICES OFFICE,
SIT DOWN, AND SHOOT THE BREEZE,
00:23:54TALKING ABOUT A CASE.
00:23:55JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: THAT
INTELLECTUAL INTERPLAY?
00:23:59FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN:
UNLIKE IN THE (LAW) PRACTICE,
00:24:03WHEN YOU GET INVOLVED IN A BIG
CASE, YOU MIGHT BE WITH IT FOR
00:24:06TWO YEARS.
00:24:07BUT ON THE COURT, YOU GET 10 OR
15 NEW ONES EVERY WEEK.
00:24:13SO YOU DON'T YOU DON'T GET BORED
WITH THE CASES AND I ACTUALLY
00:24:20ENJOYED LOOKING AT THE MOTIONS
TO CERTIFY.
00:24:22JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: MOTIONS FOR
JURISDICTION.
00:24:25FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN: MOST
OF THEM, I THINK MAYBE ALL
00:24:28(JUSTICES), HAD THEIR CLERKS DO
THAT.
00:24:32I LIKE TO READ THOSE MYSELF.
00:24:34JUSTICE PAT FISCHER I DO TOO.
00:24:35FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN: YOU
DO?
00:24:37MY REASON WAS IT WAS A MUCH MORE
EFFICIENT.
00:24:40YOU CAN TELL IN 30 SECONDS THAT
MOST OF THEM AREN'T WORTH YOUR
00:24:46TIME.
00:24:46RIGHT.
00:24:47SO WHY HAVE SOMEBODY READ ALL
THROUGH THE STUFF AND PREPARE A
00:24:53FIVE PAGE BRIEF?
00:24:54JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: WHY DID YOU
LIKE ORAL ARGUMENT SO MUCH?
00:24:58I MEAN A BUNCH OF ATTORNEYS
WOULD SAY THAT IT DIDNT SEEM TO
00:25:00MATTER.
00:25:01FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN: YEAH
I THINK IT DID.
00:25:04YOU CAN'T SAY ALL THE TIME BUT I
THINK IT DID MATTER ON THE
00:25:11CLOSED CASES.
00:25:11FOR EXAMPLE, THE ONE YOU BROUGHT
UP, THE WYATT CASE.
00:25:15I'M SURE I CAN'T BE SPECIFIC,
BUT IN A CASE LIKE THAT, PROBING
00:25:20THE ISSUES WITH COUNSEL, BECAUSE
I KNOW I WAS IN DOUBT ABOUT THAT
00:25:26WHEN WE LEFT THE BENCH.
00:25:27JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: LET ME ASK
IT THIS WAY.
00:25:29WHAT I FOUND IS ORAL ARGUMENTS
MAY OR MAY NOT CHANGE THE
00:25:33ULTIMATE RESULT, BUT IT SURE HAS
AN EFFECT ON WHETHER IT'S KIND
00:25:37OF A NARROW OR BROAD..(TRAILS
OFF) FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN:
00:25:41ABSOLUTELY.
00:25:42IT HAS ANY EFFECT ON WHAT YOU
SAY.
00:25:44BUT I THINK EVEN SOMETIMES
CHANGES THE RESULT.
00:25:46I GET THAT.
00:25:47BUT IT'S NOT IT'S NOT AN
EVERYDAY THING.
00:25:50JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: WHAT ABOUT
ANY KIND OF NEGATIVE MEMORIES?
00:25:55FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN: YOU
KNOW, NOT REALLY.
00:25:58JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: THATS A
GOOD THING.
00:26:00IF YOU HAD TO GIVE YOUR YOUNGER
SELF, AN 18 OR 25-YEAR-OLD HERB
00:26:08BROWN, ONE PIECE OF ADVICE.
00:26:11NOW YOU HAVE 50/50 HINDSIGHT,
WHAT WOULD THAT BE?
00:26:14FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN: I
GUESS DON'T WORRY SO MUCH ABOUT
00:26:20WHAT OTHER PEOPLE THINK.
00:26:21JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: LAST BUT
NOT LEAST, IF YOU HAD TO
00:26:26DESCRIBE YOUR LEGACY WHAT WOULD
YOU WANT IT TO BE?
00:26:27FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN: TO BE
HONEST, I DONT THINK I HAVE
00:26:28ONE.
00:26:29I'M NOT SURE ANY JUSTICE HAS A
LEGACY.
00:26:30MAYBE TOM MOYER BECAUSE OF THE
BUILDING AND HE'D BEEN THERE.
00:26:32BUT IN TERMS OF THE CASES, I
DON'T THINK THEY GET ASSOCIATED
00:26:35WITH A PARTICULAR JUSTICE.
00:26:46JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: YOU KNOW
WHATS INTERESTING?
00:26:55IN THE U.S.
00:26:56SUPREME COURT, VIEWERS DON'T
KNOW THIS, THE MAJORITY, EITHER
00:27:00THE CHIEF, HE OR SHE, OR THE
SENIOR JUSTICE ASSIGNS IT, CAN
00:27:05YOU TELL THE VIEWERS HOW WE
ASSIGN?
00:27:07FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN: YES
AND THAT'S WHERE I FELT VERY
00:27:11STRONGLY THAT THE OHIO SYSTEM IS
MUCH BETTER.
00:27:15JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: I AGREE.
00:27:17FOR THE CITIZENS, WHAT HAPPENS,
IF YOU ARE IN THE MAJORITY,
00:27:21THERES A PEBBLE WITH A BUNCH OF
NUMBERS ON IT.
00:27:23IF YOU ARE IN THE MAJORITY, IT
GOES INTO A KELLY POOL BOTTLE
00:27:25AND THE FIRST ONE OUT WRITES IT.
00:27:28ITS STRICTLY RANDOM.
00:27:30FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN:
UNLESS YOURE THE LAST PERSON ON
00:27:38THE LINE BUT YOU CAN DISSENT TO
AVOID IT.
00:27:42THE SUPREME COURT IS ASSIGNED BY
THE SENIOR JUSTICE IN THE
00:27:48MAJORITY.
00:27:48THAT INVOLVES PEOPLE LIKE
JUSTICE WILLIAM O DOUGLAS, WHO
00:27:58WAS AN EXPERT IN SECURITIES LAW.
00:28:00ALL THE CASES GO TO HIM.
00:28:01INTERESTING THING ON THE OHIO
SUPREME COURT.
00:28:04FIRST WEEK WE DECIDED CASES, TOM
MOYER AND I WERE NEW ON THE
00:28:09COURT.
00:28:10I DRAW A BILLS AND NOTES CASE.
00:28:13TOM DRAWS A TORTS CASE.
00:28:14I SAY TO HIM, DO YOU WANT TO
SWITCH?
00:28:15HE SAID, I'D LOVE TO SWITCH
CASES.
00:28:17I PRACTICED IN TORTS.
00:28:17AND TOM KNEW SOMETHING ABOUT
COMMERCIAL LAW AND THEY STOPPED
00:28:29US.
00:28:30THEY SAID, NO, YOU ARENT
ALLOWED TO DO THAT.
00:28:32THEY SAID YOU HAVE TO VOTE ON
EVERYTHING.
00:28:38IT MAKES SENSE TO TAKE CASES AND
LEARN SOMETHING ABOUT ALL THE
00:28:43AREAS OF THE LAW.
00:28:44JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: THIS IS
TRUE.
00:28:46FIRST DAY I WAS ON THE COURT, I
PULLED A DEATH PENALTY CASE AND
00:28:49A TAX CASE.
00:28:49I HAD NEVER DONE A DEATH PENALTY
CASE OR A TAX CASE IN MY CAREER.
00:28:51AND SO IN A TAX CASE AND I HAD
NEVER DONE A DEATH PENALTY CASE
00:28:53OR TAX CASE IN MY CAREER.
00:28:55FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN: I GOT
STUCK WITH THE BILLS AND NOTES
00:28:59CASE.
00:28:59I HATED THAT COURSE IN LAW
SCHOOL.
00:29:01JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: WHAT WOULD
YOU TELL YOUNG WRITERS TODAY?
00:29:05FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN: THE
BEST ADVICE I GOT WAS FROM A
00:29:09WRITER WHO HELPED ME TOLD ME YOU
HAVE GOT A LITTLE BIT OF ABILITY
00:29:13HERE, BUT IT IS AN EXTREMELY
DIFFICULT FIELD TO PENETRATE.
00:29:19I HAD READ THERE ARE MORE PEOPLE
MAKING IT ON THE PROFESSIONAL
00:29:23GOLF TOUR THAN THERE ARE MAKING
A LIVING AS PROFESSIONAL
00:29:27WRITERS.
00:29:28LOT OF THEM ARE PROFESSORS OR
HAVE OTHER JOBS.
00:29:32AND HIS ADVICE WAS, YOU'VE GOT
TO LOOK AT IT AS A WALL.
00:29:36AND YOU'VE GOT TO KEEP BUTTING
YOUR HEAD INTO IT.
00:29:41AND IF YOU KEEP BUTTING YOUR
HEAD LONG ENOUGH, IT WILL YIELD
00:29:47JUSTICE.
00:29:48JUSTICE PAT FISCHER: THANK YOU
FOR TAKING THE TIME TO COME IN.
00:29:50I HOPE YOU ENJOYED IT.
00:29:52I THINK THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT
FOR THE HISTORY OF OHIO.
00:29:55FORMER JUSTICE HERB BROWN: WELL,
THANK YOU FOR GETTING BEHIND
00:29:58THIS PROGRAM AND FOR THE VERY
CAREFUL PREPARATION THAT YOU
00:30:02OBVIOUSLY DID.
00:30:03I'VE ENJOYED IT.
00:30:03THANK YOU.
Note : Transcripts are compiled from uncorrected captions