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00:00:27KAREN: HOUSE LEADERS PULL BACK
THE CURTAIN ON THEIR VERSION OF
00:00:41THE GOVERNOR'S BUDGET, AND THERE
ARE SOME BIG CHANGES.
00:00:43AND TWO MEN WHO SPENT A TOTAL OF
MORE THAN HALF A CENTURY IN
00:00:46PRISON FOR CRIMES THEY DIDN'T
COMMIT TALK ABOUT WHAT IT'S LIKE
00:00:51TO BE SENTENCED TO DEATH, IN THE
HOPES OF STOPPING WRONGFUL
00:00:54CONVICTIONS AND EXECUTIONS.
ALL THIS WEEK IN "THE STATE OF
00:00:57OHIO."
KAREN: REPUBLICAN LEADERS OF THE
00:01:11OHIO HOUSE WANT TO SCRAP SOME
TAX HIKES PROPOSED BY GOVERNOR
00:01:14JOHN KASICH. BUT AS EXPECTED,
THEY WANT TO KEEP HIS PROPOSED
00:01:18TAX CUT, EVEN THOUGH IT WON'T BE
AS BIG AS HE WANTED. HOUSE
00:01:21LEADERS SAT DOWN TO EXPLAIN
THEIR VERSION OF THE BUDGET THIS
00:01:25WEEK, GOING OVER SOME OF THE
HIGHLIGHTS, WHICH INCLUDE:
00:01:35BUT IT'S A BIG DROP FROM
KASICH'S 23% TAX CUT.
00:01:38BUT THEY ALSO ERASED NEARLY ALL
OF KASICH'S PROPOSED TAX
00:01:40INCREASES THAT WOULD HAVE PAID
FOR THAT TAX CUT - INCLUDING THE
00:01:43TAX HIKES ON TOBACCO PRODUCTS
AND OIL AND GAS DRILLERS, AND
00:01:46THE INCREASES IN THE SALES TAX
AND THE COMMERCIAL ACTIVITY TAX.
00:01:50AND INSTEAD OF KASICH'S
ELIMINATION OF TAXES ON A
00:01:53MILLION SMALL BUSINESSES WITH
LESS THAN $2 MILLION IN ANNUAL
00:01:56SALES, HOUSE LEADERS HAVE
PROPOSED A PERMANENT 75% SMALL
00:02:00BUSINESS TAX DEDUCTION.
BUT HOUSE SPEAKER CLIFF
00:02:09ROSENBERGER SAID THE ELIMINATION
OF KASICH'S TAX HIKES DOESN'T
00:02:11MEAN THAT THEY'RE OPPOSED TO ALL
OF HIS IDEAS, AND THAT'S WHY HE
00:02:14WANTS A COMMISSION TO STUDY TAX
POLICY TO LOOK AT LONGER-TERM
00:02:16CHANGES.
SPEAKER ROSENBERGER: I BELIEVE
00:02:22IN WHAT THE GOVERNOR IS TRYING
TO DO AND WHERE HE IS TRYING TO
00:02:25GO WITH OUR STATE, WITH A NEW
FISCAL POLICY ON THE TAX
00:02:28ATMOSPHERE.
WHAT I WANT TO DO IS CONTINUE
00:02:31THAT ABILITY AND CONTINUE WHAT I
THINK IS A PRETTY GOOD GLIDE
00:02:34SCOPE, GLIDE PATH ONWARD TO
SEND.
00:02:37WHAT WE WILL RECOMMEND IS AS WE
GO FORWARD, PULL OUT A PROVISION
00:02:44THAT THE GOVERNOR IS
RECOMMENDING IN HIS TAX PLAN AND
00:02:47INSTEAD INSTIGATE A 2020 CAP
COMMISSION COMPRISED OF MEMBERS
00:02:51OF THE SENATE, THE HOUSE, THE
GOVERNOR'S TAX COMMISSIONER AND
00:02:55BUDGET DIRECTOR, SO WE CAN HAVE
A LONG-TERM DISCUSSION ON HOW WE
00:03:00CAN HAVE THE GOVERNOR GET THERE
IN A LONG-TERM SCOPE.
00:03:01WE ARE NOT AT DIFFERENCE WITH
THE GOVERNOR.
00:03:04WE ARE IN A POSITION TO WORK ON
THIS AND CRAFT THIS IN A WAY.
00:03:09ALSO SEVERAL AREAS IN THE
MEDICAID PORTION THAT WE ARE
00:03:13SPLITTING OUT TO RUN PARALLEL TO
GIVE IT MORE TIME AND EFFORT.
00:03:15KAREN: AND THIS WAS ALSO
EXPECTED -- THE HOUSE GOP MADE
00:03:17SOME CHANGES TO THE GOVERNOR'S
PROPOSED SCHOOL FUNDING FORMULA.
00:03:19BUT THOSE CHANGES WERE MORE
TWEAKS THAN OVERHAULS.
00:03:22KASICH HAD SAID HIS SCHOOL
FUNDING FORMULA WOULD REQUIRE
00:03:24MORE LOCAL MONEY FROM DISTRICTS
WITH HIGH PROPERTY WEALTH AND
00:03:28HIGH INCOMES.
BUT IT ENDED UP CUTTING FUNDS TO
00:03:31MORE THAN HALF OF OHIO'S PUBLIC
SCHOOL DISTRICTS.
00:03:34HOUSE LEADERS REBALANCED THAT,
ADDING $850 MILLION MORE AND
00:03:38STATING THAT NO DISTRICT WOULD
GET LESS MONEY THAN IT GOT IN
00:03:42THE LAST YEAR OF THE CURRENT
BUDGET, AND NO PUBLIC SCHOOL
00:03:45DISTRICT WOULD RECEIVE PER-PUPIL
FUNDING THAN PRIVATE SCHOOLS
00:03:48GET.
THE HOUSE LEADERS ALSO MADE SOME
00:03:51OTHER MOVES WITH THIS BUDGET:
BUT THERE WERE OTHER ITEMS IN
00:04:46THE HOUSE BUDGET THAT WEREN'T
HIGHLIGHTED IN THAT PRESS
00:04:48CONFERENCE:
AND HOUSE DEMOCRATS WEREN'T
00:05:19HAPPY WITH THE BUDGET.
MINORITY LEADER FRED STRAHORN OF
00:05:21DAYTON AT FIRST PRAISED HOUSE
REPUBLICANS FOR A NON-COMBATIVE
00:05:25PROCESS SO FAR, BUT SAID THEY
PLAN TO FIGHT AGAINST THE
00:05:27PROPOSALS THEY THINK ARE
PROBLEMATIC.
00:05:33MINORITY LEADER STRAHORN:
DESPITE THE FACT THAT SOME OF
00:05:37THE CHANGES IN THE SUM PHIL POST
SOMETHING CHALLENGES TO THE
00:05:42APPROACH TO CONTINUE, WE REMAIN
UNDETERRED AND HOPEFUL THAT
00:05:46CONTINUE NEGOTIATIONS WITH
MAJORITY WILL ULTIMATELY RESULT
00:05:48IN SOUND BUDGET POLICY FOR THE
PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF OHIO.
00:05:51A GLARING OBSTACLE TO THIS SOUND
POLICY ARE A NUMBER OF
00:05:54PROVISIONS IN THE BILL THAT
ATTACKS WORKING OHIOANS.
00:05:57WE HAVE CONSISTENTLY MAINTAINED
THAT YOU CANNOT BUILD A STRONG
00:06:02ECONOMY IN OHIO BY ATTACKING
OHIO'S MIDDLE CLASS.
00:06:05THERE ARE NO PROVISIONS IN THE
BUDGET THAT CREATE BARRIERS FOR
00:06:08PEOPLE WHO ARE CURRENTLY ENGAGED
OR WISH TO ENGAGE IN COLLECTIVE
00:06:13BARGAINING.
THERE ARE PROHIBITIONS ON THE
00:06:17USE OF PROJECT LABOR AGREEMENTS,
WHICH COULD DECIDE WHETHER OHIO
00:06:21WORKERS GET JOBS OR THOSE JOBS
GO TO WORKERS FROM OTHER STATES.
00:06:24A PROVISION THAT EXCLUDES
CERTAIN TYPES OF EMPLOYEES FROM
00:06:30PARTICIPATING IN SPECIFIC
PENSION PLANS.
00:06:31AND THERE ARE COUNTLESS UNVENTED
EFFORTS AT PRIVATIZATION.
00:06:35KAREN: DEMOCRATS SAY LAWMAKERS
HAVE CUT INCOME TAXES FOR TEN
00:06:39YEARS AND IT HASN'T HAD A
SUBSTANTIAL POSITIVE EFFECT ON
00:06:41OHIO'S ECONOMY.
ROSENBERGER IS HOPING THE BUDGET
00:06:43WILL BE ON THE HOUSE FLOOR BY
APRIL 22, WHICH THEN SENDS IT TO
00:06:47THE SENATE. REPUBLICAN PRESIDENT
KEITH FABER SAYS HE LIKES SOME
00:06:51PARTS OF THE REPUBLICAN HOUSE
PLAN, BUT THAT SOME THINGS ARE
00:06:54LIKELY GOING TO BE CHANGED, AND
THAT HIS GOAL IS FOR A SENATE
00:06:57VOTE ON THE BUDGET BY JUNE 17.
IT HAS TO BE SIGNED BY THE FIRST
00:07:00OF JULY.
A UNIQUE GROUP OF LOBBYISTS CAME
00:07:05TO THE STATEHOUSE THIS WEEK.
SIX OF THE NINE OHIO DEATH ROW
00:07:08INMATES WHO'VE BEEN EXONERATED
AFTER BEING FREED FOR CRIMES
00:07:11THEY HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH MET
WITH REPORTERS, AND THEN
00:07:15DELIVERED TO LAWMAKERS A LETTER
ASKING THEM TO CONSIDER THE
00:07:19RECOMMENDATIONS IN THE OHIO
SUPREME COURT TASK FORCE REPORT
00:07:22ON THE DEATH PENALTY - AND A
LETTER HIGHLIGHTING 13
00:07:26RECOMMENDATIONS THAT THEY FEEL
WOULD PREVENT WRONGFUL
00:07:29CONVICTIONS AND EVEN EXECUTIONS.
THE LOBBYING EVENT WAS PUT
00:07:32TOGETHER BY OHIOANS TO STOP
EXECUTIONS, WHICH PUT OUT ITS
00:07:36ANNUAL REPORT ON THE STATE OF
EXECUTIONS IN OHIO ON MARCH 30.
00:07:39BUT NO LOBBYIST OR ACTIVIST CAN
EXPLAIN THE SERIOUS CONCERNS
00:07:43ABOUT CAPITAL PUNISHMENT AS
COMPELLINGLY AS THOSE MEN WHO
00:07:46ACTUALLY STARED DOWN DATES WITH
DEATH.
00:07:49I'M PLEASED TO WELCOME TWO OF
THEM -- KWAME AJAMU, WHO WAS
00:07:52SENTENCED TO DEATH 39 YEARS AGO,
AND JOE D'AMBROSIO, WHO SPENT 23
00:07:56YEARS ON DEATH ROW BEFORE THE
CHARGES AGAINST HIM WERE
00:07:59DISMISSED.
WELCOME, GENTLEMEN.
00:08:06THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE AND
SHARE YOUR STORIES.
00:08:07LET'S START WITH YOU, CONNIE.
YOU WERE FREED IN 2003 AFTER 27
00:08:12YEARS IN PRISON FOR THROWING
ACID AND SHOOTING A MONEY ORDER
00:08:16SALESMAN IN CLEVELAND.
THAT WAS THE CRIME YOU ARE
00:08:18CONVICTED OF AND IN A KEY
WITNESS RECANTED AND IN THE
00:08:22WHOLE THING FELL APART AND YOU
WERE EXONERATED.
00:08:23YOU FEEL YOU HAVE BEEN ROBBED
COME WHEN YOU'RE NOT ANGRY WITH
00:08:27THE WITNESS.
KWAME: NO, I'M NOT.
00:08:31KAREN: HOW DO YOU FEEL AFTER
BEING IMPRISONED FOR 27 YEARS
00:08:38AND OUT NOW, HOW DO YOU FEEL?
KWAME: I AM ELATED TO BE OUT OF
00:08:43PRISON AND TO HAVE MADE ALIVE
THIS FAR.
00:08:44THE WITNESS THAT RECANTED, THE
TESTIMONY AS WELL.
00:08:48WITHOUT HIM, WE WOULD NOT BE
HERE.
00:08:50HOWEVER, MY INITIATIVE TODAY IS
WITH THE OHIOANS TO STOP
00:08:54EXECUTION, AND WE ARE HERE,
HOPEFULLY, TO LOBBY ENOUGH HELP
00:09:03FROM THIS LEGISLATION TO STOP,
TO ERADICATE THE DEATH PENALTY.
00:09:09MYSELF AND JOE, WE ARE TWO
LIVING EXAMPLES OF WHY THEY
00:09:16SHOULD BE NO DEATH PENALTY.
HAD THEY TURNED THEIR HEADS ONE
00:09:21SECOND, WE WOULD NOT BE HERE
WITH THIS STORY TODAY.
00:09:22IN 1975, I WAS ACCUSED, AND
THEREFORE SUBSEQUENTLY CONVICTED
00:09:30ON AGGRAVATED ROBBERY,
AGGRAVATED MURDER -- ATTEMPTED
00:09:32AGGRAVATED MURDER, ALONG WITH MY
BROTHER AND RICKY JACKSON.
00:09:36WE SERVED A TOTAL -- RICKY
JACKSON THE MOST, 39 YEARS.
00:09:42KAREN: THE MOST IN THE UNITED
STATES.
00:09:45KWAME: MY BROTHER RIGHT BEHIND
HIM WITH 38.5 YEARS.
00:09:50I SERVED 28 YEARS AND WAS
RELEASED ON PAROLE IN 2003.
00:09:54AGAIN, THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG
WITH THAT PART OF THE SYSTEM
00:10:01BECAUSE WE ALL WENT IN AS ONE
BUT THE SYSTEM BROKE US UP AND
00:10:02SENT US OUT IN TIERS, WHICH KIND
OF KILLED ME, WATCHING THOSE
00:10:09GUYS REMAIN IN PRISON WHILE I
WAS OUT.
00:10:10I WORKED AS HARD AS I COULD TO
HELP THEM, WE GAINED THEIR
00:10:13FREEDOM, AND TO BE HERE TODAY TO
SPEAK THIS TRUTH.
00:10:16KAREN: JOE, YOU ARE ON DEATH ROW
23 YEARS FOR A CLEVELAND MURDER
00:10:22BUT THE U.S. SUPREME COURT
BLOCKED A FEDERAL JUDGE'S RULING
00:10:25THAT PROSECUTORS HAD FAILED TO
PROVIDE EVIDENCE THAT COULD HAVE
00:10:27EXONERATED YOU, AND YOU ARE A
LITTLE ANGRY ABOUT THAT.
00:10:31YOU FEEL THE PROSECUTORS OUGHT
TO BE FACING POTENTIAL ADULT
00:10:34MURDER CHARGES?
JOE: THEY KNOWINGLY AND
00:10:38WILLFULLY HIT THE EVIDENCE.
80% OF THE EVIDENCE THAT FREED
00:10:49ME WAS IN THE PROSECUTORS FILES,
THE POLICE FILE AND THE CORNER
00:10:54FILE.
IT WAS THERE ALL ALONG AND THEY
00:10:55WITHHELD IT FROM US.
WITHIN THE SHORTEST DEATH
00:10:56PENALTY TRIAL IN THE STATE OF
OHIO'S HISTORY, IN THREE DAYS,
00:10:57THEY SENTENCE ME AND CONVICTED
ME TO DIE.
00:10:58KAREN: HOW DO YOU FEEL NOW BEING
ABLE TO SPEAK ABOUT THIS?
00:11:01JOE: THIS LEGISLATION WILL MOST
LIKELY NOT BAN THE DEATH
00:11:09PENALTY, BUT SINCE THEY WILL NOT
DAN IT, THEY HAVE TO AT LEAST
00:11:12TRY TO FIX IT.
IT IS BEYOND FIXING, BUT DOING
00:11:16SOMETHING IS BETTER THAN
NOTHING.
00:11:17BY ENACTING THE RECOMMENDATIONS
FROM THE TASK FORCE, I WOULD
00:11:24HOPE THEY WOULD RECOMMEND ALL 57
AND PUT THEM INTO LAW, BUT WE
00:11:29WILL TAKE WHAT WE CAN GET.
KAREN: AT THE VERY LEAST, 13
00:11:35RECOMMENDATIONS THAT YOU FEEL
WOULD HELP PEOPLE, FOR EXAMPLE,
00:11:38SETTING OF LEGAL FUNDS TO HELP
FOLKS GET ACCESS TO THE KIND OF
00:11:40EXPERIENCED ATTORNEYS THAT MAYBE
YOU NEED IT.
00:11:44IS THAT ONE OF THE PROBLEMS FOR
FOLKS ON DEATH ROW, THEY DID NOT
00:11:47HAVE THE MONEY TO HAVE ACCESS?
KWAME: THAT IS PROBABLY THE
00:11:54WORST THING.
HAVING ACCESS TO FUNDS AND LEGAL
00:11:57HELP.
THAT IS ONE OF THE WORST
00:11:58PROBLEMS.
THAT IS HOW IT STAGNATES BECAUSE
00:12:00THERE IS NO ONE TO HELP THEM.
THERE IS NO WAY TO GET THE HELP
00:12:03FINANCIALLY.
THIS IS ONE OF OUR MAIN ISSUES
00:12:06HERE.
JOE: IF YOU DON'T HAVE POWER,
00:12:11MONEY, OR INFLUENCE AND YOU ARE
CAUGHT UP IN THIS SYSTEM, IT
00:12:13WILL EAT YOU UP.
AND VERY QUICKLY.
00:12:15I WAS NEVER IN TROUBLE BEFORE
WITH THE LAW, I WAS AN HONOR BE
00:12:21DISCHARGED WAR VETERAN, AND THEY
TOOK THE WORD OVER A FELONY OVER
00:12:24ME.
THAT WAS THE ONLY EVIDENCE
00:12:36AGAINST ME.
.
00:12:37THAT WAS THE ONLY EVIDENCE
AGAINST ME.
00:12:38KAREN: WHICH IS ANOTHER
RECOMMENDATION.
00:12:39THERE WAS NO DNA EVIDENCE, NO
CONFESSION.
00:12:40THIS WAS JUST THE WORD OF ONE
PERSON OVER ANOTHER.
00:12:41KWAME: WHAT DID THEY WOULD
NORMALLY CALL HEARSAY.
00:12:42KAREN: ONE OF THE
RECOMMENDATIONS IS FOR SOMEONE
00:12:47TO BE CONVICTED OF A DEATH
PENALTY, THEY HAVE TO HAVE SOME
00:12:48SORT OF HARDER EVIDENCE THAN
JUST JAILHOUSE TESTIMONY.
00:12:50KWAME: WE HAVE ASKED THE COURT
FOR A STRONGER MANDATE.
00:12:55YOU CANNOT JUST PUT A GUY ON
DEATH ROW BECAUSE SOMEBODY SAID
00:12:59HE DID IT OR SHE DID IT.
JOE: A LOT OF THE TIMES IT IS
00:13:05THE ONE THAT POINTED THE FINGER
AS THE ONE WHO DID IT.
00:13:06KAREN: WHEN YOU ARE TAKING THIS
LETTER AND MEETING THESE
00:13:12LAWMAKERS, A LOT OF THE
LAWMAKERS IN THE STATE HOUSE
00:13:14HAVE BEEN SUPPORTIVE OF THE
DEATH PENALTY.
00:13:15IN THE LAST GENERAL ASSEMBLY,
THEY PASSED A MEASURE THAT WOULD
00:13:23HAVE ALLOWED THE NAMES OF
COMPANIES THAT MAKE THE
00:13:25EXECUTION DRUGS BE SHIELDED FROM
THE PUBLIC, TO MAKE THE PROCESS
00:13:26MOVE MORE QUICKLY.
WHAT DO YOU WANT TO LAWMAKERS TO
00:13:29KNOW ABOUT DEATH ROW AND THE
DEATH PENALTY IN PARTICULAR?
00:13:31LET ME START WITH YOU, JOE.
JOE: THE FUNNY THING IS, THE
00:13:38EXOTIC TREES, THE WAY THE SYSTEM
IS SET UP, IT TAKES AN AVERAGE
00:13:40OF 10 TO 12 YEARS BEFORE THEY
WILL EXECUTE THEM.
00:13:44NONE OF US WOULD BE HERE TODAY
IF THAT WAS THE SAME TIMEFRAME
00:13:49BACK THEN AS IT IS NOW.
THEY WOULD HAVE EXECUTED ALL OF
00:13:52US AND WE WOULD NOT BE HERE
TODAY.
00:13:55ONCE THEY EXECUTE YOU, THEY GET
TO DESTROY ALL THE EVIDENCE.
00:13:58THERE IS NOTHING FOR THEM TO
LOOK BACK ON BECAUSE THEY DO NOT
00:14:02WANT TO FIND -- OOPS, WE
EXECUTED AN INNOCENT PERSON.
00:14:08KAREN: LET ME ASK YOU, KWAME,
WHAT DO YOU WANT LAWMAKERS KNOW
00:14:19ABOUT THE DEATH PENALTY
EXPERIENCE AND DEATH ROW IN
00:14:20PARTICULAR?
KWAME: TWO THINGS.
00:14:25THE FIRST THING THAT JOE AND I
TALKED ABOUT WAS THE FEELING
00:14:26THAT ONE GETS ONCE THAT FINGER
IS POINTED AT YOU BY THE JUDGE,
00:14:30DECLARATION OF DEATH IS PLACED
UPON YOU.
00:14:33WHEN HE SAYS, I SENTENCE YOU TO
DIE AT SUCH AND SUCH DAY, AT
00:14:37SUCH TIME, THAT BECOMES AN
ELEMENT OF -- YOU ARE JUST
00:14:41OVERWHELMED WITH SO MUCH GRIEF
AND PAIN AND AGONY, MENTALLY AND
00:14:46EMOTIONALLY, IT IS ALMOST LIKE
TERMINAL CANCER.
00:14:50IT WEARS YOU.
UNLESS YOU HAVE AN ABILITY TO GO
00:14:56SOMEWHERE ELSE IN YOUR MIND AND
SPIRIT, -- AND WE HAVE SEEN
00:15:00PEOPLE THAT DID NOT MAKE IT.
WE SAW PEOPLE THAT DID NOT COME
00:15:03UPDATE -- COME OFF OF DEATH ROW,
NOT DUE TO THE STATE.
00:15:10THEY JUST COULD NOT MAKE IT.
WE WANT TO TAKE THIS MESSAGE AND
00:15:13LET THEM KNOW, YOU ARE NOT ONLY
KILLING THE INDIVIDUAL WANTS,
00:15:18YOU ARE NOT ONLY STOPPING HIS
FAMILY FROM GROWING PRODUCTIVELY
00:15:21AND HAVING A GOOD RELATION, BUT
YOU ARE ALSO DESTROYING A HUMAN
00:15:26BEING FROM THE INSIDE OUT.
THAT IS PROBABLY THE WORST
00:15:32ATROCITY THAT WE CAN DO TO EACH
OTHER, THE MENTAL AND EMOTIONAL
00:15:36ANGUISH THAT WE CAUSE EACH
OTHER.
00:15:37IT IS WORSE THAN BULLYING.
BULLYING IS A BAD THING.
00:15:41ONCE WE TRAP A PERSON IN A CELL
OR A ROOM, FOR INSTANCE -- WHEN
00:15:48I WAS YOUNGER AND I WAS
BABYSITTING MY NIECES AND
00:15:50NEPHEWS -- YOU KNOW HOW THE
COUCH IS LIKE A CATTY CORNER?
00:15:55THAT WAS THEIR JAIL WHEN THEY
WERE BAD.
00:16:01I LOOK BACK NOW AND I THINK AT
THAT COUCH.
00:16:0428 YEARS.
THIS IS A GRAVE ATROCITY THEY
00:16:09HAVE DONE TO US AND WE WANT TO
TAKE THAT MESSAGE FORWARD.
00:16:11JOE: WHAT IS EVEN WORSE IS WHAT
THEY DO TO THE VICTIMS FAMILIES.
00:16:15THEY GET NO JUSTICE.
BECAUSE THEY WILL NOT GO AFTER
00:16:21THE REAL MURDERERS, BUT BY DOING
SO, IT SHOWS THEY SHOULD HAVE
00:16:26NEVER COME AFTER US.
SO THEREFORE, THE VICTIMS, MOST
00:16:29OF THE EXONEREES, MOST OF THEM,
THEY DO NOT HAVE THE
00:16:40PERPETRATORS OF THE MURDER.
IT IS SO OLD IN MANY CASES, THE
00:16:43ODDS OF FINDING THEM ARE SLIM TO
NONE.
00:16:47SO THE VICTIMS ARE VICTIMIZED
ALL OVER AGAIN AND THERE IS
00:16:49NOBODY DOING ANYTHING FOR THEM.
NOTHING.
00:16:50KAREN: DO YOU WORRY THAT PEOPLE
HAVE THIS IMPRESSION OF
00:16:57CRIMINALS AND PEOPLE ON DEATH
ROW IN PARTICULAR, AND REALLY
00:17:00HAVE NO EMPATHY FOR INDIVIDUALS
ON DEATH ROW WHO MIGHT BE
00:17:03WRONGLY ACCUSED?
DO YOU WORRY THAT YOU RUN UP
00:17:11AGAINST SOMEBODY WHEN YOU TRY TO
CONVINCE PEOPLE OF THE STORY AND
00:17:13TRY TO TELL YOUR STORIES WHICH
ARE SO COMPELLING?
00:17:14KWAME: PERSONALLY, NO.
THIS HAS BEEN AN UPHILL BATTLE
00:17:20FOR ME ANYWAY.
ONCE I WAS RELEASED IN 2003, I
00:17:29MET THOSE TYPES OF NAYSAYERS HAD
ON.
00:17:30I WAS THE ONE COMMISSION TO TRY
TO HELP GET RICKY AND MY BROTHER
00:17:36OUT OF PRISON.
IT IS A NO GO FOR ME.
00:17:42IF THEY DON'T CARE TO HAVE ANY
EMPATHY OR SYMPATHY WITH WHAT IS
00:17:47GOING ON WITH THESE GUYS, 39
YEARS IN PRISON FOR NOTHING, AND
00:17:50THIS MAN HERE, THAN I DO NOT
EVEN HEAR THEM.
00:17:54I AM TRY TO TALK TO PEOPLE LIKE
YOURSELF AND THOSE SENATORS
00:17:59UPSTAIRS I WANT TO HEAR THE
STORY AND WANT TO DO SOMETHING
00:18:00TO HELP US.
KAREN: WHAT DO YOU SAY TO THE
00:18:02NAYSAYERS, JOE?
JOE: A LOT OF IT IS THAT THEY
00:18:06ARE UNEDUCATED ABOUT THE SYSTEM,
UNTIL YOU GET CAUGHT UP IN IT,
00:18:13HOW MANY PEOPLE THINK ABOUT
A DEATH PENALTY?
00:18:15MOST PEOPLE THINK THE SYSTEM
WORKS BUT IT DOES NOT.
00:18:19MOST OF THE TIME IT IS NOT THE
SYSTEM THAT WORKS BUT IT IS
00:18:23SOMETHING OUTSIDE THE SYSTEM.
EVERYONE THINKS DNA IS THE MAGIC
00:18:26BULLET.
THERE ARE ONLY 19 OF THE 150
00:18:31THAT WERE EXONERATED BY DNA.
MOST OF THEM ARE INNOCENT
00:18:33PROJECTS, LAW SCHOOLS, FRIENDS
THAT ACTUALLY LOOK INTO THE CASE
00:18:41AND START DIGGING INTO THE CASE.
THEY ARE THE ONES THAT HELP FREE
00:18:45AND PROVE THE INNOCENCE.
ONCE YOU'RE IN THERE, NO ONE
00:18:49LISTENS TO THE MAN IN ORANGE
JUMPSUIT.
00:18:50NO ONE LISTENS TO THE DEAD MAN
WALKING.
00:18:53KWAME: OR YOU ARE ALL INNOCENT.
JOE: THAT IS AN UPHILL BATTLE
00:19:01BECAUSE OF THE HEINOUS CRIME
THAT WAS COMMITTED.
00:19:03YOU ARE ALMOST GUILTY BECAUSE WE
WOULD NOT PURPOSELY PUT YOU ON
00:19:07DEATH ROW.
YOU MUST HAVE BEEN A CRIMINAL
00:19:10BEFORE HAND, YOU MUST HAVE BEEN
ROTTEN.
00:19:11KAREN: YOU MUST HAVE DONE
SOMETHING TO PUT YOURSELF IN
00:19:14THAT POSITION.
JOE: WHEN THE JUDGE HITS THE
00:19:19GAVEL AND SAYS 30,000 BULLS WILL
PASS THROUGH BODY UNTIL YOU ARE
00:19:22DEAD.
YOU ARE THINKING, FOR WHAT?
00:19:23WHAT HAPPENED?
I HAD THE SHORTEST DEATH PENALTY
00:19:29TRIAL IN THE STATE OF OHIO
HISTORY.
00:19:30TWO AND A QUARTER DAY.
IN A BLINK OF AN EYE I AM ON
00:19:36DEATH ROW AND NOT HAVING A CLUE
OF WHAT HAPPENED.
00:19:38I DID NOT KNOW ANY POLICE, ANY
PROSECUTORS OR JUDGES.
00:19:40I HAVE NOT A CLUE OF THE SYSTEM.
I WAS THE MOST COMMON JOE THERE
00:19:44IS OUT THERE.
IF IT CAN HAPPEN TO ME, IT CAN
00:19:48HAPPEN TO YOU.
KAREN: FINALLY, THERE IS
00:19:54FINANCIAL COMPENSATION FOR SOME
PEOPLE THAT HAVE BEEN
00:19:55EXONERATED.
IT HAS NOT COME FORWARD FOR
00:19:57OTHERS.
DO YOU FEEL THE SYSTEM IS FAIR
00:19:58-- I KNOW THERE IS NO WAY MONEY
CAN REPLACE THE LOSS OF THE TIME
00:20:03IN YOUR LIFE THAT YOU SPENT
BEHIND BARS, BUT DO YOU FEEL
00:20:07FINANCIAL COMPENSATION IS FAIR,
ARE YOU STILL FIGHTING THAT?
00:20:09JOE: I AM STILL FIGHTING IT AND
IT'S AN UPHILL BATTLE.
00:20:15IN MY CASE, NOBODY IS CHANGING
THEIR STORY BECAUSE THEY ARE ALL
00:20:17AFRAID OF RETALIATION, IF NOT
PERJURY, OR SOMETHING ELSE.
00:20:22IT IS SUCH AN UPHILL BATTLE.
SOVEREIGN IMMUNITY THAT THE
00:20:27SYSTEM HAS AGAINST US IS
RIDICULOUS.
00:20:32I HAVE FIVE FEDERAL JUDGES THAT
SAID MY CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS
00:20:36WERE VIOLATED.
AND YET, WHEN IT CAME TO TRYING
00:20:40TO GET COMPENSATION, THEY SAID,
NO, CANNOT DO IT.
00:20:42SORRY.
SUCKS TO BE YOU.
00:20:43KAREN: WOW.
KWAME, RICKEY JACKSON, ONE OF
00:20:58THE THREE CONVICTED ALONGSIDE
YOU, HE GOT A MILLION DOLLARS
00:21:00FROM THE STATE.
WHAT IS YOUR SITUATION, DO YOU
00:21:01FEEL THE COMPENSATION AWARDS ARE
EVEN REMOTELY FAIR?
00:21:03KWAME: THERE IS NO FAIRNESS IN
ANY REWARD.
00:21:07HOWEVER, I WILL SAY -- AND I
NEED TO BE CLEAR ON THIS.
00:21:13AND ESPECIALLY IN JOE'S CASE.
THIS ONLY PERPETUATES THE
00:21:25ATROCITIES THAT HAVE HAPPENED TO
THIS MAN.
00:21:26AND MYSELF, AND EVERYONE.
JOE'SWITH REGARDS TO FINANCIAL
00:21:32COMPENSATION, I FIRMLY BELIEVE
THAT IT SHOULD HAPPEN THE MINUTE
00:21:33THEY SAY THAT YOU ARE DISMISSED
FROM THE TRIAL, FROM THE CASE.
00:21:40BECAUSE YOU WENT TO PRISON THE
VERY MOMENT THEY SAID YOU WERE
00:21:42GUILTY.
THIS IS WHERE I SAY THE
00:21:49PARALLELS OF FAIRNESS AND
UNFAIRNESS, IN A PARTICULAR
00:21:56SENSE, EXIST.
THERE IS NO MONEY THAT CAN
00:21:58COMPENSATE ANY OF US, EVER, FOR
JUST ONE DAY, LET ALONE THE
00:22:04HOURS AND YEARS THAT WE SPENT.
ALL OF MY IMMEDIATE FAMILY IS NO
00:22:11LONGER HERE.
YOU SEE?
00:22:13HOW DO I GET PAID FOR THAT?
I CANNOT.
00:22:19I DO NOT WANT TO BE PAID FOR
THAT BECAUSE IT WOULD MEAN THAT
00:22:21I SOLD THEM OUT.
IT MEANS THAT THERE IS A PRICE
00:22:25ON MY MOM, MY DAD, BROTHER,
SISTER, ALL MY AUNTS.
00:22:28MY NEPHEW JUST PASSED AWAY.
THERE IS NO PRICE ON THAT.
00:22:33I HAVE TO SAY, PERSONALLY, I
THINK IT IS TOTALLY UNFAIR, AND
00:22:38ONLY BECAUSE IT CANNOT FIT THE
CRIME.
00:22:41AND THERE IS A CRIME AGAINST US.
KAREN: LET ME ASK YOU TO
00:22:47CONCLUDE, WHAT IS YOUR LIFE LIKE
NOW SINCE YOU HAVE BEEN
00:22:50EXONERATED AND ARE MOVING
FORWARD?
00:22:51ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU COMPARE IT
TO 20 YEARS AGO?
00:22:53JOE: MY LIFE IS PRETTY WELL.
I WAS LUCKY ENOUGH, A CATHOLIC
00:23:02TOOK ME IN.
IF IT WASN'T FOR HIM AND HIS
00:23:07PARISH AND THE UNDYING LOVE THAT
THEY HAVE FOR ME -- I HAVE
00:23:17EVERYTHING I NEED TO SURVIVE
RIGHT NOW.
00:23:18BUT A LOT OF GUYS THAT GET OUT
HAVE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.
00:23:24THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING IN
PLACE FOR AN EXONEREE.
00:23:27IF YOU ARE CONVICTED AND DO TIME
AND GET OUT, THERE ARE ALL KINDS
00:23:34OF PROGRAMS, BUT FOR AN
EXONERAEE, THEY JUST OPENED
00:23:41THE DOOR AND KICK YOU OUT AND
TELL YOU TO LIVE.
00:23:42IN MY CASE, I HAD NO
IDENTIFICATION WHATSOEVER
00:23:49BECAUSE IT WAS ALL TAKEN DURING
MY TRIAL.
00:23:52I DID NOT EVEN HAVE A BIRTH
CERTIFICATE.
00:23:53WHEN IT CAME TIME TO GET MY
BIRTH CERTIFICATE, THEY WOULD
00:23:57NOT LET ME IN THE BUILDING
BECAUSE I DID NOT HAVE AN ID TO
00:24:00GET MY BIRTHDAY GET TO TRY TO
START GETTING IT.
00:24:01KAREN: CATCH-22.
JOE: EXACTLY.
00:24:08THEY THROW YOU ONTO THE STREET
AND SAY I HOPE YOU CAN MAKE IT.
00:24:10KWAME: FIGURE IT OUT.
JOE: A LOT OF TIMES, YOU CANNOT.
00:24:14LUCKILY, FATHER NEIL GAVE ME A
JOB, I HAVE BENEFITS.
00:24:19BUT TRY TO GET A HOUSE, A LOAN,
TRY TO GET AN APARTMENT.
00:24:24MY RECORD WAS EXPUNGED, BUT WHEN
IS THE FIRST THING AN EMPLOYER
00:24:30DOES, WHEN YOU GO FOR A LOAN OR
RENT A HOUSE?
00:24:33THE GOOGLE YOUR NAME AND IT IS
ALL RIGHT THERE.
00:24:37KWAME: THEN YOU BECOME A LIAR.
KAREN: KWAME, WHAT IS YOUR LIFE
00:24:42LIKE NOW?
KWAME: I AM OK NOW, ONLY BECAUSE
00:24:51I AM COMING TO THE END PROCESS
IN HAVING SEEING THOSE TWO GUYS,
00:25:00-- COME OUT AFTER ME.
I HAVE A BEAUTIFUL WIFE THAT HAS
00:25:04SUPPORTED ME SINCE DAY ONE.
I AM EASY TO GET ALONG WITH.
00:25:06KAREN: ARE YOU WORRIED ABOUT THE
INMATES THAT REMAIN ON DEATH
00:25:12ROW, SOME OF WHOM MAY BE
INNOCENT?
00:25:13JOE: NO DOUBT.
KWAME: NO DOUBT, AND THIS IS WHY
00:25:19WE ARE HERE WITH THIS
INITIATIVE.
00:25:20HOPEFULLY, WE CAN GET SOMETHING
-- I DON'T KNOW, WE ARE COMING
00:25:25UP WITH SOMETHING.
I AM VERY WORRIED ABOUT THOSE
00:25:27GUYS BECAUSE THOSE GUYS ARE
SITTING THERE LIKE HE AND I
00:25:34WERE, TOTALLY INNOCENT.
THAT DAY IS GETTING CLOSER AND
00:25:36CLOSER.
JOE: WE WILL NOT STOP UNTIL THEY
00:25:41ABOLISH THE DEATH PENALTY.
NOT JUST IN OHIO BUT ACROSS THE
00:25:43UNITED EIGHTS.
LOOK AT THE COUNTRY THAT HAVE
00:25:45THE DEATH PENALTY.
WE WANT TO BE ASSOCIATED WITH
00:25:49THAT?
WE CALL RUSH OF THE BARBARIANS.
00:25:52THEY ABOLISHED THEIR DEATH
PENALTY BECAUSE THEY SAW HOW BAD
00:25:55IT WAS, AND YET, WE STILL HAVE
IT.
00:25:58AND WE CONDEMN COUNTRIES THAT DO
HAVE IT.
00:26:01BUT IT IS DUE AS WE SAY, NOT AS
WE DO.
00:26:04THAT IS JUST WRONG.
KAREN: THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR
00:26:12BEING HERE, IS GREAT TO MEET YOU
BOTH.
00:26:13AND THAT'S IT FOR THIS WEEK.
FOR MY COLLEAGUES AT OHIO PUBLIC
00:26:14RADIO AND TELEVISION, THANKS FOR
WATCHING.
00:26:15IF YOU'D LIKE TO ASK QUESTIONS,
MAKE COMMENTS, OR WATCH THIS
00:26:17WEEK'S SHOW OR EARLIER EPISODES,
PLEASE VISIT OUR WEBSITE AT
00:26:20STATENEWS.ORG, OR WATCH ON THE
OHIO CHANNEL'S WEBSITE OR AT
00:26:23IDEASTREAM.ORG/OHIO.
AND YOU CAN FOLLOW JO INGLES,
00:26:27ANDY CHOW AND ME ON TWITTER.
AND PLEASE JOIN US AGAIN NEXT
00:26:29TIME FOR "THE STATE OF OHIO."
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00:26:41CAPTION CONTENT AND ACCURACY.
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Note : Transcripts are compiled from uncorrected captions