January 24, 2011
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00:00:09>>From the Center for the Study
00:00:10and the Teaching of Writing at
00:00:11The Ohio State University, this
00:00:12is Writers Talk.
00:00:13I'm Doug Dangler.
00:00:15Today I'm joined by three
00:00:16social media experts from Ohio
00:00:18State University.
00:00:19Ryan Squire directs The Ohio
00:00:21State University Medical Center
00:00:22Social Media Program where he
00:00:24is responsible for the overall
00:00:25strategic direction and
00:00:27development of social medical.
00:00:29Ryan started his exploration of
00:00:30social media as the Managing
00:00:31Editor at WCMH TV NBC 4 in
00:00:35Columbus.
00:00:36Deborah Jasper directs the
00:00:37Kiplinger Program in Public
00:00:38Affairs Journalism at Ohio
00:00:40State, a digital media program
00:00:42designed to help mid-career
00:00:43journalists, public policy
00:00:44leaders and other professionals
00:00:46excel in a digital world.
00:00:47She was formally the State
00:00:49House Bureau Chief for the
00:00:50Cincinnati Inquirer and has won
00:00:52more than forty journalism
00:00:53awards.
00:00:54Shaun Halloway directs web
00:00:55marketing and development at
00:00:57Ohio State University's Fisher
00:00:58College of Business.
00:01:00He is co-founder of the
00:01:01Columbus Social Media Cafe,
00:01:03founder of the Digital Media
00:01:04Strategy Networking Group for
00:01:07mission-based organizations,
00:01:08and an active member of the
00:01:09Professional Sales Advisory
00:01:11Board for the Sales Center.
00:01:12Welcome to Writers Talk.
00:01:14>>Thanks, its great to be
00:01:15here.
00:01:15>>Thanks for having us.
00:01:16>>Great!
00:01:17Well lets start off with a
00:01:18really simply question.
00:01:19Social media seems a bit
00:01:21amorphous to me.
00:01:22You've got Twitter, Yammer,
00:01:23Facebook, YouTube, blogs.
00:01:26Define it.
00:01:27What is and what isn't social
00:01:29media?
00:01:30>>You go for it, Ryan.
00:01:32>>I'll give it a quick try, I
00:01:33think social media is really
00:01:35the channels that we use that
00:01:39empower people to move from
00:01:42content readers to content
00:01:43publishers.
00:01:44I think it encompasses all of
00:01:46the tools that do that so they
00:01:48take us from people who consume
00:01:50content, which is traditionally
00:01:51what audiences did, to now
00:01:53people who can publish at will.
00:01:56>>So it has to be
00:01:57interactive?
00:01:57>>Absolutely.
00:01:58>>Social.
00:02:00It's just that simple.
00:02:00>>Ok.
00:02:01>>I mean it's spreadable.
00:02:03The stories that you put out
00:02:03there that other people can
00:02:04spread, that other people can
00:02:05share.
00:02:05>>Ok.
00:02:06So let me do a follow up on
00:02:07that.
00:02:08You see YouTube as interactive
00:02:10then?
00:02:11Because I hear it talked about
00:02:13sort of as social media, but I
00:02:15always think is that really
00:02:16social media because I think it
00:02:18seems to be the less
00:02:19interactive, but one of the
00:02:19most popular sites.
00:02:21>>I don't know.
00:02:22Look at the number of people,
00:02:23though, who are commenting on
00:02:23videos and talking to each
00:02:24other.
00:02:25When you think about the Ted
00:02:26Williams video that went to
00:02:27viral and you look at all the
00:02:29comments that were happening on
00:02:30YouTube and then how much
00:02:32social interaction was going on
00:02:33after that video went viral,
00:02:37well it's pretty social.
00:02:38>>What happens with that
00:02:39content?
00:02:40It really gets pushed out to a
00:02:41lot of other networks.
00:02:43One of the big things about
00:02:43social media is its
00:02:44interconnectedness and how it's
00:02:46connecting to a lot of other
00:02:47social media tools, basically
00:02:49just communication spreads, but
00:02:51there's got to be a place where
00:02:52that content is entered for the
00:02:53first time.
00:02:54>>I think the ability to
00:02:56easily share this content
00:02:57across all different platforms
00:02:59and spaces is essential in
00:03:01making it social media.
00:03:03One of the things about YouTube
00:03:05from the television station
00:03:06perspective is the fact that
00:03:09it's so easy to share, you
00:03:10know, and I think you look at
00:03:11the websites the newspapers
00:03:13journalists deal with and they
00:03:15don't necessarily have a video
00:03:18tool that allows you to share
00:03:19video that easily.
00:03:20That's one of the things that
00:03:22makes those videos go viral.
00:03:25I think it's the publishing and
00:03:27the ability to share things.
00:03:28>>One of the things newsrooms
00:03:29are wrestling with now: How can
00:03:30we get out content to be shared
00:03:32more often and get credit for
00:03:34it?
00:03:35>>Which is what happened with
00:03:36the Ted Williams thing.
00:03:38When it went out it was
00:03:39originally under the Columbus
00:03:40Dispatch, but then other people
00:03:41picked it up and the Columbus
00:03:42Dispatch made them stop and
00:03:45pulled it back in.
00:03:46I think that's very hard to
00:03:47control though because it went
00:03:48back out again.
00:03:49>>We say think influence, not
00:03:51control, because your ability
00:03:53to control your content once
00:03:54it's out there, it just doesn't
00:03:56exist.
00:03:57>>Control is essentially a
00:03:58fallacy in a world that has.
00:04:01I mean you look at the number
00:04:02of tools and the scale that
00:04:03these tools have to share this
00:04:04information to create content
00:04:06and publish it, but then share
00:04:07content that's already been
00:04:08published somewhere else, steal
00:04:10it potentially and then share
00:04:12as it were in the case with the
00:04:14Dispatch with the Ted Williams
00:04:15story.
00:04:16The ease that that happens with
00:04:20really made it impossible for
00:04:22an organization to say no, this
00:04:23is mine and I'm going to hold
00:04:24on to it.
00:04:25>>You're better off putting
00:04:26your brand in your videos so
00:04:27that when twelve million people
00:04:29see it at least they know it's
00:04:29your video.
00:04:31>>What does that then do for
00:04:33your brand?
00:04:34You're getting eyes on it, but
00:04:36I think the big problem is the
00:04:39revenue.
00:04:39How does that happen?
00:04:40>>And that's the big question
00:04:41on the table, that's what
00:04:43newsrooms are really wrestling
00:04:43with.
00:04:44In a world where everyone has
00:04:45their own channel, how do I
00:04:47profit from this?
00:04:48How do I get people to come
00:04:49back to might site so that I
00:04:52get the clicks, so that I can
00:04:53get advertisers who want to
00:04:54advertise on my site?
00:04:55There are no easy answers to
00:04:57this, I mean everyone is still
00:04:58wrestling with it.
00:04:59>>I think it's being open to
00:05:00all the options.
00:05:01I mean, Youtube has several
00:05:02different options to monetize a
00:05:03video on their channel and they
00:05:05know when you get six hundred
00:05:08clicks on that video in an
00:05:09hour, they know that the
00:05:10ability for that video to go
00:05:12viral is very high.
00:05:14They'll e-mail you and they'll
00:05:15say hey, you've got a video
00:05:16that's doing great, do you want
00:05:18to serve an ad or do you want
00:05:19to do this?
00:05:20You can work with YouTube to
00:05:21develop that content.
00:05:22You'd really rather work with
00:05:25them and make some money than
00:05:27try and work against them and
00:05:29end up with nothing.
00:05:32>>Or some really angry people
00:05:33because you pulled the video.
00:05:35>>PR problem.
00:05:36>>Now you've been in on
00:05:38something that went viral like
00:05:39this, I take it, where they
00:05:40contacted you.
00:05:42Is that a common occurrence,
00:05:43because we've got YouTube stuff
00:05:46for Writers Talk, but our
00:05:48YouTube hasn't done a terrible?
00:05:49>>You're not getting millions
00:05:50of hits?
00:05:51>>I'm not getting millions of
00:05:52hits.
00:05:52>>Millions of people are
00:05:53going to be watching this, I
00:05:54have no doubt.
00:05:54>>We have a video that was
00:05:55produced.
00:05:56We did a video competition
00:05:57inside the organization, so it
00:05:59was a video that was produced
00:06:00in our patient transport area
00:06:03and by our patient transport
00:06:04team and when we announced the
00:06:05winner we announced it on our
00:06:07Intranet.
00:06:08At any given point in time
00:06:09there are five, six thousand
00:06:11people working at the Medical
00:06:11Center and when we announced it
00:06:13we just got a flood of views in
00:06:15the first hour.
00:06:17I mean it was never going to go
00:06:18viral per se, or at least that
00:06:19wasn't the idea, but we did get
00:06:21contacted by YouTube just
00:06:23because of the number of views
00:06:24it got in the first hour or two
00:06:25that first day.
00:06:27They have all sorts of
00:06:29logarithms and everything else
00:06:31that tell them that something
00:06:33is, >>Patient transport is a
00:06:33lot of fun to watch.
00:06:35>>It's a good story and it's
00:06:37them telling it as opposed to
00:06:39somebody else.
00:06:40And that's another point about
00:06:42social media is that instead of
00:06:44it being a highly produced
00:06:46video in a studio with a bunch
00:06:49of cameras, no offense, you
00:06:53give the people who do the work
00:06:55the ability to do their own
00:06:56story and so it's just a better
00:06:57story because it captures their
00:07:00passion for what they're doing
00:07:01as opposed to, >>Well one of
00:07:03the things I liked to follow up
00:07:05on that is you've got an
00:07:08interesting description on your
00:07:09website about your job, you
00:07:11quote, "Empower all sixteen
00:07:12thousand employees using social
00:07:15media.
00:07:15The Medical Center's employee's
00:07:17are engaging each other and
00:07:18collaborating and connect with
00:07:19patients on an ever more
00:07:20personalized level to improve
00:07:22their overall healthcare
00:07:23experience." But medicine, it
00:07:25seems to me, is one of those
00:07:25areas where social media and
00:07:27privacy collide.
00:07:28>>Absolutely.
00:07:29>>You've got.
00:07:30How do you simultaneously
00:07:31protect patient information and
00:07:32empower employees?
00:07:34>>Well, first I think social
00:07:35media and privacy collide
00:07:36everywhere.
00:07:38It's a consideration from
00:07:41grandma down to your kids.
00:07:43I mean are you sharing stuff
00:07:45that's appropriate?
00:07:46Are you sharing it with people
00:07:47who are appropriate?
00:07:49So there are always privacy
00:07:50issues whether or not we pay
00:07:51attention to those privacy
00:07:52issues is a totally different
00:07:53situation.
00:07:55In medicine it's so important
00:07:56because the things that we talk
00:07:58about, our health or disease,
00:08:00is extremely private
00:08:04information so there are
00:08:05federal laws that are set up,
00:08:08the HIPAA.-- the Heath
00:08:10Information Portability and
00:08:10Accountability Act,
00:08:12specifically says what we can
00:08:13and can't do.
00:08:14We just simply can't talk about
00:08:16our patients.
00:08:18In social media, that means
00:08:20that we can't talk about our
00:08:21patients.
00:08:22We can't talk about them when
00:08:23we're in the hospital, walking
00:08:24around in public places and we
00:08:26can't talk about them online
00:08:27and then that doesn't change
00:08:29and they don't necessarily need
00:08:30a policy to tell them that.
00:08:32What we are very concerned
00:08:35about is that we talk about how
00:08:37our patients have the ability
00:08:39to talk, again to publish
00:08:41content and share their own
00:08:42stories because we do know that
00:08:44patients who do that, that
00:08:45interact with patients with
00:08:47similar situations, they
00:08:49recover better.
00:08:50They get healthier faster, they
00:08:51have a better potential for
00:08:53recovering from serious
00:08:53illness, like cancer, and
00:08:56simply because they share and
00:08:58discuss, so social media allows
00:09:00them to do that.
00:09:02Now it's crazy to think that we
00:09:04would have people talking about
00:09:06medicine and about medical
00:09:07issues and not in some way want
00:09:09to influence that situation.
00:09:12I think it's the responsibility
00:09:13of physicians.
00:09:14Their oath is to do no harm and
00:09:16what harm is done in being
00:09:19silent and I think that's
00:09:20something that we take very
00:09:21seriously.
00:09:22Giving and empowering our
00:09:24people is simply teaching them
00:09:25how to use these tools, how to
00:09:28keep themselves safe and how to
00:09:29keep their patients safe but to
00:09:33be cognizant of the fact that
00:09:35they're looking for help and we
00:09:36can provide that.
00:09:37>>When you think about it
00:09:38when you're sick, you really
00:09:39want people to talk to about
00:09:40your illness, you want to
00:09:41connect with people.
00:09:42That's when you most need
00:09:43support.
00:09:44That's also when you're the
00:09:45most isolated so you can think
00:09:46social media is great in that
00:09:48situation.
00:09:49Before I had surgery I went
00:09:50online and I read everything
00:09:51that I could read.
00:09:52I looked in chat rooms to see
00:09:53what people were talking about.
00:09:55I think a lot of folks do that.
00:09:58>>You just have to be careful
00:09:59when you're on your source.
00:10:01There are a lot of whackos out
00:10:02there.
00:10:02>>Well and that's the point.
00:10:06>>Actually one of the things
00:10:07we teach a class at the John
00:10:08Glenn School of Public Policy
00:10:09and we have graduates, but
00:10:11students come in, they have to
00:10:12take their thesis and think
00:10:13about how they would tweet
00:10:14about their research.
00:10:16>>Very slowly and repeatedly.
00:10:18>>Well, just enough.
00:10:19Well, people think Twitter, but
00:10:20it's really hard to write short
00:10:22and it's hard to write a line
00:10:23that's going to engage me
00:10:24enough that I'm going to click
00:10:25on and read your research, you
00:10:27know.
00:10:27That's not easy.
00:10:28That's not an easy thing to get
00:10:29people to do, but increasingly
00:10:31you think whatever, even if you
00:10:32have complex medical issues or
00:10:34if you're dealing with complex
00:10:35public policy issues, if you
00:10:37can get people engaged and
00:10:39that's what social media can
00:10:40do.
00:10:41People often think it's
00:10:41shallow, but it's just a
00:10:43headline, in some sense, to get
00:10:46me to a deeper story or it's a
00:10:48way to listen and I think a lot
00:10:50of us forget we're broadcasting
00:10:52out and we're not thinking
00:10:53enough about how can we listen
00:10:54to what people want to tell us
00:10:57about their issues.
00:10:58>>And this is huge, Doug.
00:10:58I mean what Doug was talking
00:10:59about here, the listening is so
00:11:00important because when you're
00:11:02in a medical setting there is a
00:11:04feeling that you're isolated.
00:11:06Even if you're there, you're
00:11:08looking around and it's this
00:11:09huge place and this huge
00:11:10building and you're in a
00:11:11hospital, you don't know what's
00:11:12going to happen next.
00:11:13Nowhere else in our lives do
00:11:13we.
00:11:14We don't go to the superstore
00:11:15or the grocery store and not
00:11:17know what's going to happen
00:11:19next.
00:11:19I mean usually when we're going
00:11:20to the doctor, even for a
00:11:21routine checkup, we don't
00:11:23necessarily know what's going
00:11:23to happen next or what's the
00:11:24doctor going to pull out or
00:11:26what are they going to say.
00:11:29You're always kind of on edge
00:11:30and that's why privacy becomes
00:11:32such a big deal anyway, but I
00:11:34think listening in those
00:11:36situations is something that
00:11:39healthcare organizations
00:11:40haven't done traditionally and
00:11:41haven't done well, for sure.
00:11:44Tools that give us the ability
00:11:45to listen to our patients in a
00:11:46different way, maybe even
00:11:47anticipate some of their needs
00:11:48when they're in these places
00:11:49that are big and scary and new,
00:11:52I think is a homerun.
00:11:53>>Right.
00:11:54I mean you find out even more
00:11:55about basic things like our
00:11:56patients are freezing in our
00:11:57waiting room, small things that
00:12:00can really change patient care.
00:12:02Or these patients over here
00:12:04have been complaining a lot
00:12:06about how long they're waiting
00:12:07or that kind of thing.
00:12:08>>Well let's switch.
00:12:09I mean we talked about
00:12:10medicine, let's go to the
00:12:12Fisher College of Business.
00:12:15I'm curious about the ways that
00:12:17you do social media there
00:12:18because it seems like a natural
00:12:19for business.
00:12:20I've seen tons of businesses
00:12:21with Twitter pages, Twitter
00:12:23feeds, Facebook pages.
00:12:25It seems like a requirement
00:12:26these days, but tell me about
00:12:28your approach there.
00:12:29How do you work with that?
00:12:32>>One of our biggest
00:12:33approaches in the college is
00:12:34really bubbling up solid
00:12:35content.
00:12:37Our websites is perceived as
00:12:38the most credible source for
00:12:39information about our programs,
00:12:41degrees, what's happening in
00:12:42business those types of things,
00:12:43but not a lot of deep stories
00:12:45from the students, what's it
00:12:46like to be a student in our
00:12:47college?
00:12:48There's a question on the
00:12:49admissions application that's
00:12:51really confusing, how do I
00:12:52answer it?
00:12:53It's really digging into our
00:12:54admissions blogs, our student
00:12:56life blogs where we have over
00:12:57thirty to forty student
00:12:59bloggers blogging at any one
00:13:00time and really just bubbling
00:13:02up that news.
00:13:04Not everything can hit the
00:13:05homepage, if you will, and a
00:13:07lot of our ability with social
00:13:09media is to pull that up.
00:13:13Our alumni and our prospective
00:13:14students and just our member
00:13:16companies, those types of
00:13:17things, don't know about what's
00:13:19going on or are not really
00:13:20interested in the headline, but
00:13:21they're really interested in
00:13:22what a student did on a project
00:13:23or what a professor's research
00:13:25impacted something they were
00:13:27working on in consumer behavior
00:13:29or finance.
00:13:31They didn't really know that
00:13:31ahead of time so it's really
00:13:32bubbling up the stories and
00:13:34really appealing to audiences
00:13:36in a different way.
00:13:38>>I mean my follow up on that
00:13:39is you've got a lot of
00:13:40bloggers, what happens to
00:13:42control?
00:13:43You said control is a fallacy
00:13:45in certain situation so you've
00:13:47got grad students or even in
00:13:48some cases undergrads.
00:13:50I think it's mostly the grad
00:13:51students at the Fisher.
00:13:52>>You have some undergrads who
00:13:53blog on their internships over
00:13:54the summer.
00:13:55Whether we've had international
00:13:56internships, domestic in big
00:13:58cities like New York and L.A.,
00:14:00students blogging and they go
00:14:01through a training process
00:14:02ahead of time.
00:14:03What makes a good blog post?
00:14:05What makes it interesting?
00:14:06What kind of content is a
00:14:07little bit engaging?
00:14:09They also give a little bit on
00:14:11emphasizes the Fisher brand,
00:14:12the Fisher College of Business
00:14:13brand and really what does it
00:14:15mean to be at Ohio State in
00:14:16such a prestigious business
00:14:17school.
00:14:18They really have that feeling
00:14:19anyways, it's really kind of
00:14:21how does that really apply to
00:14:22them and really show off that
00:14:24passion.
00:14:26>>I think what you're talking
00:14:27about here is risks and
00:14:27opportunity costs.
00:14:28You're talking about risks --
00:14:30what if a student doesn't like
00:14:30a class or what if a student
00:14:32says something really bad, but
00:14:34you have to weigh opportunity
00:14:36costs.
00:14:37You have to say what's the
00:14:39risk.
00:14:40We say a lot that there are two
00:14:41risks, there's the return on
00:14:43investment.
00:14:43Everybody talking about what's
00:14:44the R.O.I.
00:14:45on this.
00:14:46They think the channels are
00:14:47free, but it takes a lot of
00:14:48people sometimes to actually
00:14:50post on Facebook, to Tweet out
00:14:51and to really pay attention to
00:14:52all those channels, so that's
00:14:54one R.O.I.
00:14:55The other is risk of ignoring.
00:14:57You really can't afford to
00:14:58ignore this space because
00:14:59students are tuning in and
00:15:01potential students that you are
00:15:02trying to attract, they're
00:15:04going to be more likely to read
00:15:04a blog by another student than
00:15:06to read to brochures or the
00:15:08traditional PR that you put
00:15:10out.
00:15:11There is a big risk in not
00:15:12doing it as well.
00:15:13>>We've had situations where
00:15:14really one post was the day in
00:15:16the life of a student and that
00:15:18sparked conversation.
00:15:20It's really more of an
00:15:21opportunity to fix an issue or
00:15:24to have the conversation where
00:15:25as otherwise you wouldn't have
00:15:27it.
00:15:28>>Right.
00:15:29>>People could be having that
00:15:29conversation on the street, but
00:15:30now they're having it in a way
00:15:31that we can actually watch the
00:15:32conversation and that's new.
00:15:34>>And look how valuable it is
00:15:35to find out that question
00:15:36twelve is really confusing.
00:15:38I mean you can fix problems.
00:15:39If five or ten people start
00:15:41complaining or fifteen people
00:15:43about the same thing then you
00:15:45start to know we've got an
00:15:46issue here we have to repair.
00:15:48That's the great thing about
00:15:49listening.
00:15:50>>And it's really listening
00:15:51through the traditional
00:15:51channels, too.
00:15:52What are people calling in
00:15:53about?
00:15:54What are people e-mailing
00:15:55about?
00:15:55That's also a way to distribute
00:15:56answers to those types of
00:15:57things so it's just another
00:15:59communication vehicle as part
00:16:00of our marketing mix.
00:16:02>>You mention communication
00:16:03and marketing and you're all
00:16:05sort of in that mix.
00:16:07I'm wondering whether the rise
00:16:10of social media has created
00:16:12other jobs or is it one of
00:16:14these things were it's putting
00:16:15more work on the people that
00:16:16were already there because
00:16:17you've already got the
00:16:18traditional ways that you were
00:16:20talking about -- the brochures.
00:16:21The brochures seem to me like
00:16:22it's unlikely they're going to
00:16:23go away today, but now it's a
00:16:25new thing that's being laid on
00:16:28top of people and is that
00:16:30something that's a bad thing
00:16:32for them because they have to
00:16:33take on extra work?
00:16:35Are they bringing in other
00:16:36people?
00:16:36You're the social media person.
00:16:38>>I think it's both.
00:16:41At least in the beginning it's
00:16:42new to companies so they feel
00:16:44like wow, we need somebody who
00:16:45understands this, who can
00:16:45figure it out for us, who can
00:16:46help us get there.
00:16:48But I really think, Doug, that
00:16:50down the road this is part of a
00:16:53business as answering the
00:16:55telephone or sending e-mails, I
00:16:56really do.
00:16:57>>It's quality control, you
00:16:58have to have everybody engaged.
00:17:00>>Being a social business or
00:17:02being able to interact with
00:17:04your customers is going to
00:17:06become an expectation from your
00:17:08customers and I think that the
00:17:10businesses who are there now
00:17:13are the exception, but they're
00:17:16seeing a ton of benefit because
00:17:17of it.
00:17:19It doesn't matter what industry
00:17:20they're in, whether it's
00:17:21business or financial or health
00:17:22or journalism, the companies
00:17:24that were there first are
00:17:27reaping all sorts of benefits,
00:17:28but I think it will become.
00:17:31So is there always a social
00:17:32media person?
00:17:33I think there's a person whose
00:17:35job it is to stay on top of
00:17:37these trends, to understand
00:17:39what it means, to look for
00:17:40opportunities, but I think that
00:17:43everybody's job is to tell
00:17:44stories.
00:17:45>>That's why I never say I'm
00:17:46a social media expert because
00:17:48maybe I was at eight a.m., but
00:17:49by nine the world shifted and
00:17:52it really it hard to stay on
00:17:53top of these trends.
00:17:54We don't even assign books in
00:17:55our classes in our graduate
00:17:56courses because by the time you
00:17:57get the book it's really
00:17:59outdated.
00:18:00You can order a book on Twitter
00:18:01and by the time you get the
00:18:03book there's fifty million more
00:18:05people Tweeting everyday.
00:18:07It really moves that fast, but
00:18:09if you look at journalism, the
00:18:10titles have changed.
00:18:12As journalists, thousands of
00:18:14journalists were getting laid
00:18:15off , traditional print
00:18:16reporters were contacting us
00:18:19who are "engagement editors."
00:18:22They are in charge of trying to
00:18:23engage the public in new ways
00:18:25or there are social media
00:18:27managers.
00:18:28There are new titles in
00:18:29newsrooms now because newsrooms
00:18:31are recognizing.
00:18:32We say you're not just
00:18:34competing with your neighboring
00:18:35newspaper, you're competing
00:18:36with your neighbor and your
00:18:37neighbor has really powerful
00:18:38content and so it really is
00:18:40changing the way traditional
00:18:41journalists are doing their
00:18:42jobs.
00:18:43>>I think that's really valid
00:18:44for businesses, too, because
00:18:45what traditional journalism has
00:18:46always done is tell stories.
00:18:48That's what they have done and
00:18:50now it's possible for
00:18:52businesses to do the same
00:18:53thing.
00:18:55I think not only is it
00:18:55possible, but if you talk about
00:18:56how important it is that we
00:18:57aggregate those stories and
00:18:59listen to them and see what
00:19:00they are but creating some of
00:19:01that content from the business
00:19:03standpoint I think is essential
00:19:04for businesses.
00:19:05>>And a huge challenge for
00:19:06journalists because they are
00:19:07showing up and realizing wow,
00:19:08you have your own platforms and
00:19:10you're telling your own
00:19:10stories, so what does this mean
00:19:12for the stories that I'm going
00:19:13to tell about you?
00:19:16>>Well, one of the biggest
00:19:17things that we're moving toward
00:19:18is actually a level of
00:19:19participation.
00:19:20It's one thing to tell our own
00:19:21stories and to get an
00:19:23occasional like or comment
00:19:25based on one of our stories,
00:19:27but to take the next level of
00:19:28engagement and getting to that
00:19:29peak of participation or
00:19:32really, really having an
00:19:33engaged conversation.
00:19:34How many meaningful
00:19:35conversations are out there?
00:19:36Probably a lot.
00:19:37Are you in that conversation or
00:19:38are you not?
00:19:40That takes time and I think
00:19:42Ryan, too, you're point about
00:19:44positions in social media
00:19:44really kind of forming
00:19:46themselves.
00:19:47You have those relationship
00:19:48managers.
00:19:50They are your digital sales
00:19:50people.
00:19:51They are out there building
00:19:52relationships and it takes
00:19:53fifteen, twenty minutes to have
00:19:54a conversation or to monitor
00:19:56twenty conversations at the
00:19:57same time, well there just went
00:19:59half your day.
00:20:01>>And the change for writers
00:20:02I think in all of this.
00:20:04I was a traditional print
00:20:05reporter.
00:20:06I was a long-form narrative
00:20:07writer and suddenly and I think
00:20:09the reason that all these
00:20:11journalists are coming to the
00:20:11Kiplinger program now this
00:20:13year, we had a record number of
00:20:14application, is because there
00:20:15are thinking, I have to write
00:20:17in a much more short way.
00:20:19I have to learn how to Tweet in
00:20:21a way that's going to get
00:20:22attention.
00:20:23I have to learn how to post on
00:20:24Facebook.
00:20:25I have to be more informal.
00:20:27Journalists were sort of able
00:20:29to have the formal "we," you
00:20:31know, they were able to write
00:20:32in that way.
00:20:33That's changing, that's
00:20:34radically changing now for
00:20:36reporters.
00:20:37>>You've got this going on,
00:20:39but do you see this going on in
00:20:39other journalism programs where
00:20:41you've got Tweeting 101.
00:20:43Is it that formalized yet?
00:20:45>>Yeah.
00:20:45We teach strategic Tweeting.
00:20:47How do you Tweet strategically?
00:20:49How do you build a following?
00:20:50How do you get people to tune
00:20:51into your Twitter feed?
00:20:53How do you think about who you
00:20:55want to follow because Twitter,
00:20:57I use it as a really smart
00:20:58research channel.
00:20:59I follow really smart people in
00:21:00my field and they're Tweeting
00:21:02out all day about what's going
00:21:03on on the web.
00:21:04It's great!
00:21:06We teach leveraging Facebook,
00:21:07the latest trends.
00:21:09There's a lot of.
00:21:11We went to the Investigative
00:21:12Reporters and Editors
00:21:13Conference this year in Vegas
00:21:14and taught Strategic Twitter
00:21:17and now we're going to Norway,
00:21:18actually the Nordic Digital
00:21:19Medial Festival, and teaching
00:21:21Strategic Twitter.
00:21:24>>Strategic Twitter.
00:21:25>>I never thought.
00:21:26>>Is there strategic Yammer?
00:21:28Actually that's a serious
00:21:29question.
00:21:30If you take something like
00:21:31Yammer, seems to be Twitter
00:21:33writ small, it's just for that
00:21:34organization.
00:21:36>>For people who don't know
00:21:37what that it, Yammer is just
00:21:39sort of people who are Tweeting
00:21:40within their own organization.
00:21:42But sure!
00:21:43If you're at Ohio State, for
00:21:44example, they have a big
00:21:45popular Yammer feed and you're
00:21:47on Yammer you have to be
00:21:48thinking about what's my
00:21:50reputational capital on this
00:21:51feed?
00:21:52Who am I presenting myself as?
00:21:54How am I talking about my
00:21:55program and what it is I do?
00:21:57You're always having to think
00:21:58about that.
00:21:59>>You're mixing your personal
00:22:00brand with your organizational
00:22:01slash professional brand.
00:22:02>>Everybody is.
00:22:03In whatever world we're in
00:22:04we're all mixing our personal
00:22:06brand and our professional
00:22:07brand.
00:22:08One of the things we teach is,
00:22:10and I didn't make this up, but
00:22:11what happens in Vegas stays on
00:22:13Youtube and Twitter and people
00:22:15really have to be more
00:22:16thoughtful about who they are
00:22:18on these channels and how they
00:22:20portray themselves.
00:22:21>>One of the things that
00:22:22Yammer really shows us is kind
00:22:24of a microcosm of the bigger
00:22:26social media world.
00:22:28We heard that we can't go into
00:22:30social media and just blast out
00:22:32all sorts of information about
00:22:33what we're doing, the Medical
00:22:34Center this, that and the other
00:22:35thing, you have to go in and
00:22:37look for ways to provide value
00:22:39for people.
00:22:40And I think that especially
00:22:41when you use Yammer you can
00:22:42really see how that comes
00:22:43through because when you go
00:22:44into that feed and you just
00:22:45start sending your press
00:22:46releases or you just start
00:22:47re-writing a headline, no one
00:22:50talks about it, they don't
00:22:52comment.
00:22:54I think that that is really
00:22:56just a snap shot of how it
00:22:58looks on the rest of social as
00:23:00well.
00:23:01>>If you look at the Chicago
00:23:02Tribune they have a traditional
00:23:03Twitter feed where they are
00:23:04just Tweeting out headlines,
00:23:07about thirty thousand plus
00:23:11followers, but then they have
00:23:13Colonel Tribute and he wears a
00:23:14funny hat, he engages with
00:23:15people and he tells jokes and
00:23:17he's still doing the news, but
00:23:18in a much more informative,
00:23:20informal way and yet they have
00:23:22over eight hundred thousand
00:23:23followers.
00:23:24I think the lesson is that
00:23:25people are tuning into the
00:23:26informal, whether you're a
00:23:27journalist or whether you're in
00:23:28business or whether you're in
00:23:30the medical field, whatever
00:23:31field you're in, people are
00:23:33looking, we're hyper
00:23:34distracted.
00:23:35We've got more than one hundred
00:23:36thousand words coming at us
00:23:37every day and that's outside of
00:23:38work.
00:23:40If you're going to get
00:23:41attention in that world where
00:23:42any minute everybody is looking
00:23:44below their table and they are
00:23:45on their iPhone, it's hard to
00:23:47get people's attention and it's
00:23:48really hard to keep it so you
00:23:50have to use new strategies for
00:23:52that.
00:23:53That's strategic Twitter.
00:23:56>>There's a concept that I
00:23:58read Steve Rubal talk about
00:23:59some of the people from, oh
00:24:03what's the name of the company,
00:24:04it will come back to me, but he
00:24:06talks about the collaboration
00:24:06imperative and the idea that
00:24:10for it to really be social
00:24:12media, the purpose of it has to
00:24:15be collaborative in nature.
00:24:17You're working on something
00:24:18with someone else for a shared
00:24:21goal, for a shared purpose and
00:24:23I think that's essential.
00:24:24>>I have one other question
00:24:25that I wanted to ask the two of
00:24:26you.
00:24:27Ryan, you've written that you
00:24:30believe local media companies
00:24:30should be performing platforms
00:24:31for citizens to share content
00:24:33and educating them on how to be
00:24:34true journalists and I was
00:24:35assuming that you would twitch
00:24:37when I said that.
00:24:39I'd like to come back to that.
00:24:42>>I have a different
00:24:43perspective on that.
00:24:44>>You can argue commercial
00:24:48journalism against public
00:24:49media, but I think that if
00:24:53commercial journalists want to
00:24:54stay relevant, have to find a
00:24:55way to involve their audiences
00:24:59and not just their audience who
00:25:00wants news and information but
00:25:01their audience who wants a
00:25:02platform to sell a product,
00:25:03they have to find a way to get
00:25:05those people involved in what
00:25:07they're doing, which ultimately
00:25:08is telling stories.
00:25:09You can either fight somebody
00:25:12and so no this is my content
00:25:13and I'm going to hold on to it
00:25:14and you go do your thing and
00:25:17it's not real because it's not
00:25:18journalism, or you can work
00:25:20with them and teach them some
00:25:22of the pillars of journalism
00:25:23you can teach them how to tell
00:25:25accurate and fair and balanced
00:25:27stories, you can teach them how
00:25:28to think critically about the
00:25:30story you're writing.
00:25:32I think as journalists we have
00:25:35a responsibility to a certain
00:25:36extent to do that.
00:25:37I don't see why doctors would
00:25:40ever go out and listen to a
00:25:41talk or what somebody try and
00:25:45perform something that's
00:25:46medically incorrect and why
00:25:50would journalists continue to
00:25:51allow people to do that.
00:25:52I think it has to be a teaching
00:25:53collaborative, but I think is a
00:25:55responsibility there that
00:25:56journalists have.
00:25:57>>I just think this notion
00:25:58that we're the only people, as
00:25:59journalists, who can tell power
00:26:00stories is over.
00:26:03>>I agree.
00:26:05>>There are lots of people
00:26:06out there who can tell better
00:26:07stories than we can tell when
00:26:08we tell them the stories
00:26:08ourselves and those folks get
00:26:10attention, or they happen to be
00:26:15in the right place.
00:26:16If you're watching a plane land
00:26:17in the Hudson, are you a
00:26:18journalist?
00:26:19You've got a lot of amazing
00:26:21footage that maybe the rest of
00:26:23us didn't get there because
00:26:24we're not in the Hudson.
00:26:27>>I've heard the phrase it's
00:26:28better to be lucky than good.
00:26:31The things that you're
00:26:33describing about, that you can
00:26:34teach these people, do you
00:26:35think that it is being taught?
00:26:37Do you feel that people are
00:26:38being responsible with it in a
00:26:40way that squares with the
00:26:42diminishing influence of
00:26:43traditional journalism?
00:26:45>>I think people are hungry
00:26:45for it, but we teach it a lot.
00:26:47In the past two and a half
00:26:48years we've taught social media
00:26:50to more than five thousand
00:26:51people, a lot of them
00:26:53businesses and governments.
00:26:55We were in Ukraine.
00:26:56The Ukrainian Council of
00:26:57Ministers is trying to figure
00:26:58this out.
00:26:59So you feel like ok, the
00:27:00Ukrainian Council of Ministers
00:27:01is working on this.
00:27:02People are working in this all
00:27:03over the world that I think
00:27:05people are trying to learn so I
00:27:08think there is a huge interest
00:27:09in this.
00:27:10It's a hot issue right now.
00:27:11They say social media managers
00:27:12is one of the top hot new jobs
00:27:14right now and it's because
00:27:16we're in the midst of a
00:27:17communications revolution and
00:27:20we have to help people figure
00:27:22out what that means for them.
00:27:23That really is the bottom line.
00:27:25It's the biggest revolution
00:27:26they say since the invention of
00:27:27the printing press and that
00:27:29took two hundred years and we
00:27:30are all getting to watch this
00:27:31unfold.
00:27:33What an opportunity.
00:27:34>>But my last question I guess
00:27:35is who's driving that?
00:27:39You've taught five thousand.
00:27:43How does that compare to the
00:27:46things that are really popular
00:27:47on Youtube?
00:27:48What's your sense on who is
00:27:49driving that kind of idea of
00:27:52what's responsible and what's
00:27:53good?
00:27:54I go to Youtube and I see a lot
00:27:55of frivolous things and I think
00:27:57ok, if that's what gets the
00:27:59eyeballs, how do you compete
00:28:02with that?
00:28:04>>Increasingly though, that's
00:28:05being build into literacy
00:28:06classes.
00:28:07We're teaching this at the high
00:28:08school level, we're teaching
00:28:09this at the grade school level
00:28:11and we just did some training
00:28:12for sixty teachers at a high
00:28:13school and they're all trying
00:28:15to figure this out.
00:28:16You have to start being a
00:28:18really sophisticated watcher
00:28:21and reader and that's part of
00:28:22digital literacy.
00:28:25I think it's happening and not
00:28:26enough, but it's happening.
00:28:29>>A lot of it just falls on
00:28:30young people and a lot of it
00:28:31just falls on the parents.
00:28:32Just watching what they are
00:28:33doing and educating them, it
00:28:35goes back to human fundamentals
00:28:37of communication.
00:28:39These are just new tools.
00:28:40>>When you're making your own
00:28:41video don't you think you're
00:28:42more sophisticated when you
00:28:43watch other peoples?
00:28:44You see how you can manipulate
00:28:45data and that kind of thing.
00:28:48>>I've shot a lot of videos
00:28:49of my kids when I make them
00:28:50confess to things by careful
00:28:52editing.
00:28:53Any way, I want to thank all of
00:28:55you for coming today.
00:28:57>>It's been fun.
00:28:58>>Good.
00:28:59>>You've all got websites
00:29:02that people can go to --
00:29:03Fisher, the University Medical
00:29:07Center, and the Kiplinger
00:29:09program.
00:29:11From the Center from the Study
00:29:12and Teaching of Writing at The
00:29:13Ohio State University, this is
00:29:14Doug Dangler saying,
00:29:15keep writing.
Note : Transcripts are compiled from uncorrected captions