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00:00:00ANNOUNCER: SUPPORT FOR THE
STATEWIDE BROADCAST OF THE
00:00:05"STATE OF OHIO" COMES FROM THE
LAW OFFICES OF PORTER, WRIGHT,
00:00:07MORRIS AND ARTHUR, LLP, HELPING
BUSINESS AND INDIVIDUAL WITH
00:00:09COMPLEX LEGAL PROBLEMS IN OHIO,
ACROSS THE COUNTRY, AND AROUND
00:00:11THE WORLD.
ONLINE AT PORTERWRIGHT.COM.
00:00:13AND FROM THE OHIO EDUCATION
ASSOCIATION, REPRESENTING
00:00:15120,000 MEMBERS WHO WORK TO
INSPIRE THEIR STUDENTS TO THINK
00:00:18CREATIVELY AND EXPERIENCE THE
JOY OF LEARNING.
00:00:20ONLINE AT OHEA.COM.
KAREN: AS A NEW YEAR BEGINS, A
00:00:22LOOK BACK AT SOME OF THE BIGGEST
OF LAST YEAR'S ACTION AT THE
00:00:24OHIO SUPREME COURT.
THERE'S A BIPARTISAN EFFORT TO
00:00:26STOP THE SEIZURE OF HOMES, CARS,
CASH, AND OTHER PROPERTY BEFORE
00:00:31A SUSPECT IS CHARGED WITH A
CRIME.
00:00:33AND SOME OF OHIO'S INCARCERATED
CRIMINALS HAVE CREATED SOME
00:00:36INCREDIBLE WORKS OF ART.
ALL THIS WEEK IN "THE STATE OF
00:00:38OHIO."
?
00:00:42KAREN: 2015 WAS A BIG YEAR FOR
CASES INVOLVING PUBLIC RECORDS,
00:00:50HOME RULE, SEX OFFENDERS, AND
CHARTER SCHOOLS AT THE STATE'S
00:00:52HIGHEST COURT.
THE OHIO SUPREME COURT SIDED
00:00:59WITH JOURNALISTS ON POLICE
RECORDS AT PRIVATE COLLEGES AND
00:01:01ON THE KEY CARD DATA DEMOCRATIC
FORMER CUYAHOGA COUNTY EXECUTIVE
00:01:03ED FITZGERALD WITHHELD DURING
THE 2014 CAMPAIGN FOR GOVERNOR.
00:01:06AND THEY RULED FOR THE
"CINCINNATI ENQUIRER," SAYING
00:01:15BUTLER COUNTY SHOULD NOT HAVE
WITHHELD A RECORDING OF A CALL A
00:01:16911 DISPATCHER MADE TO A WOMAN
WHO'D CALLED AFTER HER HUSBAND
00:01:19WAS STABBED BY HER SON, AND THEN
HUNG UP.
00:01:21JUSTICE PAUL PFEIFER QUIZZED THE
"ENQUIRER'S" JOHN GREINER IN
00:01:23ARGUMENTS IN 2014.
JUSTICE PFEIFER: WE'RE TO TRUST
00:01:26TO YOUR EDITORS RATHER THAN TO
THE JUDGE TO MAKE THE DECISION
00:01:35AS TO WHAT MIGHT OR MIGHT NOT BE
PREJUDICIAL TO THE DEFENDANT?
00:01:38JOHN GREINER: I ALWAYS LIKED
THOMAS JEFFERSON'S QUOTE THAT IF
00:01:41HE HAD TO CHOOSE BETWEEN A
GOVERNMENT WITH NO NEWSPAPERS
00:01:51AND NEWSPAPERS WITH NO
GOVERNMENT, HE WOULD TAKE THE
00:01:53LATTER RATHER THAN THE FORMER.
KAREN: THE COURT ALSO DETERMINED
00:01:55THAT THE NAMES OF REPLACEMENT
TEACHERS ARE PUBLIC RECORDS AND
00:01:57COULD BE RELEASED TO THE
CLEVELAND TEACHERS UNION AFTER
00:01:59THE CONTENTIOUS TEACHERS' STRIKE
IN STRONGSVILLE IN 2014, AND THE
00:02:11JUSTICES DECIDED THAT A PARENT
CANNOT REVIEW CONFIDENTIAL
00:02:13COUNTY CHILDREN'S SERVICES
RECORDS IN AN INVESTIGATION INTO
00:02:15ABUSE OF HER CHILD.
ONE OF THE BIGGEST DECISIONS OF
00:02:17THE YEAR CAME DOWN IN SEPTEMBER
IN FAVOR OF AKRON-BASED WHITE
00:02:19HAT MANAGEMENT, THE FOR-PROFIT
MANAGER OF 10 CLEVELAND AREA
00:02:21CHARTER SCHOOLS, SEVEN OF WHICH
HAD SERIOUS ACADEMIC PROBLEMS.
00:02:23FIVE JUSTICES AGREED THAT WHEN
THE CONTRACTS ENDED, THE
00:02:25CHARTERS HAD TO BUY FROM WHITE
HAT SCHOOL EQUIPMENT THAT WAS
00:02:28PURCHASED WITH STATE MONEY,
SIDING WITH WHITE HAT'S LAWYER
00:02:31DAVID PARAGUS.
DAVID PARAGUS: SIMPLY STATED,
00:02:47THIS CASE IS A CONTRACT
INTERPRETATION CASE.
00:02:49KAREN: BUT JUSTICE PAUL PFEIFER
CALLED THE WHITE HAT CONTRACTS
00:02:50"UNCONSCIONABLE," AND JUSTICE
BILL O'NEILL WROTE THAT THE
00:02:52JUDGMENT "REWARDS FAILURE AND
ENCOURAGES ITS REPETITION IN THE
00:02:53FUTURE IN THE NAME OF PROFIT."
THE RESULTING OUTRAGE OVER THE
00:03:04WHITE HAT DECISION LED LAWMAKERS
TO PUT LANGUAGE INTO A CHARTER
00:03:06SCHOOL REFORM LAW SIGNED IN
NOVEMBER THAT WOULD REQUIRE
00:03:08LIMITS ON CONTRACTS CHARTERS CAN
SIGN WITH MANAGEMENT COMPANIES.
00:03:10THERE WERE RULINGS RELATED TO
LOCAL GOVERNMENTS' HOME RULE
00:03:12POWERS.
IN FEBRUARY, THE JUSTICES
00:03:13DELIVERED A BLOW TO CITIES WITH
LOCAL LAWS BANNING FRACKING,
00:03:15SAYING THEY COULDN'T BE ENFORCED
IF A COMPANY HAD PERMISSION OF
00:03:23THE LANDOWNER AND A STATE
PERMIT.
00:03:24AND IN APRIL, THE COURT REJECTED
THE SO-CALLED "JOCK TAX" THAT
00:03:26CLEVELAND LEVIED AGAINST
VISITING PROFESSIONAL ATHLETES.
00:03:28RYAN MCMANUS, WHO REPRESENTED
RETIRED CHICAGO BEARS LINEBACKER
00:03:29HUNTER HILLENMEYER, TOLD THE
COURT IN JANUARY THERE'S A
00:03:31PROBLEM WITH BASING INCOME TAXES
ON THE NUMBER OF GAMES VISITING
00:03:33PLAYERS PLAY INSTEAD OF THE
NUMBER OF DAYS THEY WORK.
00:03:36>> THE PROBLEM IS THAT ONE OF
THESE METHODS RESULTS IN UNFAIR
00:03:39APPORTIONMENT UNDER THE
CONSTITUTION, AND RESULTS IN THE
00:03:42CITY OF CLEVELAND REACHING
BEYOND ITS BORDERS AND TAXING
00:03:44INCOME EARNED ELSEWHERE.
THAT'S IMPERMISSIBLE, NOT ONLY
00:03:46UNDER OHIO LAW, BUT THAT'S
UNCONSTITUTIONAL.
00:03:51KAREN: CLEVELAND SAYS THE
DECISION MAY MEAN IT WILL HAVE
00:03:53TO PAY AS MUCH AS $2.4 MILLION
IN TAX REFUNDS TO OUT-OF-TOWN
00:03:56NATIONAL FOOTBALL LEAGUE
PLAYERS, AND THAT DOESN'T
00:04:00INCLUDE REFUNDS THAT MAY BE
CLAIMED BY PROFESSIONAL ATHLETES
00:04:02IN OTHER SPORTS.
THE COURT ISSUED TWO BIG RULINGS
00:04:04ON SEX OFFENDERS.
IN NOVEMBER, THE COURT AGREED
00:04:06THAT REQUIRING CONVICTED SEX
OFFENDERS TO REGISTER AND CHECK
00:04:09IN PERIODICALLY WITH AUTHORITIES
IS NOT CRUEL AND UNUSUAL
00:04:14PUNISHMENT, IN A CASE INVOLVING
A 21-YEAR-OLD WHO'D HAD SEX WITH
00:04:16A 15-YEAR-OLD.
CLARK COUNTY ASSISTANT
00:04:19PROSECUTOR RYAN SAUNDERS ARGUED
THE CASE AGAINST TRAVIS
00:04:22BLANKENSHIP'S CLAIM IN MARCH.
RYAN SAUNDERS: MR. BLANKENSHIP
00:04:25COMMITTED A CRIME.
HE WAS 21.
00:04:26HE HAD SEX WITH A 15-YEAR-OLD.
AND AS PART OF THAT, HE'S A SEX
00:04:29OFFENDER.
KAREN: ONCE AGAIN, JUSTICES
00:04:32PFEIFER AND O'NEILL DISAGREED
WITH THE MAJORITY, SAYING
00:04:35BLANKENSHIP'S 25 YEAR SENTENCE
WAS DISPROPORTIONATE.
00:04:39BUT THE COURT ALSO LET STAND A
12 YEAR LIMIT ON WHEN CHILDHOOD
00:04:44SEXUAL ABUSE VICTIMS CAN FILE
LAWSUITS AGAINST THE STATE.
00:04:46THE COURT WAS CALLED INTO OTHER
CONTROVERSIAL ISSUES.
00:04:50IT RULED AGAINST SOME OF THE
LANGUAGE THE STATE BALLOT BOARD
00:04:53HAD WRITTEN ON THE MARIJUANA
LEGALIZATION EFFORT THAT
00:04:55EVENTUALLY FAILED.
AND AFTER THE U.S. SUPREME COURT
00:05:05UPHELD SAME-SEX MARRIAGE LAST
YEAR, THE COURT'S PROFESSIONAL
00:05:07CONDUCT BOARD SAID JUDGES
COULD NOT REFUSE TO MARRY
00:05:12SAME-SEX COUPLES OR COMPLETELY
STOP PERFORMING MARRIAGES TO
00:05:14AVOID THE ISSUE.
COURT WATCHERS ARE ALSO LOOKING
00:05:28AT OTHER ISSUES REGARDING THE
STATE, INCLUDING WHO HAS LEGAL
00:05:35STANDING TO SUE THE STATE OVER
WHETHER VIDEO SLOT MACHINES ARE
00:05:36CONSTITUTIONAL, WHETHER A 112
YEAR SENTENCE FOR A JUVENILE IS
00:05:38FAIR, AND WHETHER CONVICTED
MURDERER ROMMELL BROOM SHOULD BE
00:05:40SENTENCED TO A SECOND EXECUTION
AFTER AN ATTEMPT IN 2009 WAS
00:05:41CALLED OFF AFTER TWO HOURS OF
TRYING TO PUT BROOM TO DEATH.
00:05:48THE WAR ON CRIME, AND
SPECIFICALLY ON DRUGS, HAS LED
00:05:50TO SOME BOLD MOVES BY LAWMAKERS
AND LAW ENFORCEMENT.
00:05:52ONE OF THOSE BIG STEPS IS CALLED
CIVIL ASSET FORFEITURE, WHICH
00:05:53ALLOWS FOR MONEY, PROPERTY,
WEAPONS AND OTHER VALUABLES TO
00:05:55BE SEIZED IF AUTHORITIES SUSPECT
THAT IT'S TIED TO A CRIME.
00:05:58THE IDEA IS THAT SEIZING THOSE
ASSETS WOULD KEEP CRIMINALS FROM
00:06:00USING THEM TO FINANCE AND
CONTINUE THEIR ACTIVITIES.
00:06:02BUT UNDER THIS IDEA, MOST OF THE
TIME THE ONLY WAY THE OWNER OF
00:06:11THE PROPERTY CAN GET IT BACK WAS
TO PROVE THAT IT WASN'T PART OF
00:06:13OR BOUGHT WITH CRIMINAL
PROCEEDS.
00:06:15THAT'S LED TO STORIES OF
INNOCENT PEOPLE LOSING CASH,
00:06:17CARS, AND EVEN HOMES AND HAVING
TO HIRE LAWYERS TO GET THEIR
00:06:19SEIZED GOODS BACK.
THE CONSERVATIVE-LEANING
00:06:21INSTITUTE FOR JUSTICE, WHICH HAS
DEFENDED SOME PEOPLE TRYING TO
00:06:24RECOVER THEIR SEIZED PROPERTY,
SAYS OHIO TOOK IN MORE THAN $80
00:06:29MILLION BETWEEN 2000 AND 2008
THROUGH CIVIL ASSET FORFEITURE,
00:06:32ALTHOUGH THERE ARE THOSE WHO SAY
THERE AREN'T ANY HARD NUMBERS ON
00:06:34THE PRACTICE IN OHIO.
TWO BILLS UNDER CONSIDERATION IN
00:06:38THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE WOULD
ABOLISH CIVIL ASSET FORFEITURE
00:06:56AND WOULD REQUIRE A PERSON BE
CONVICTED OF A CRIME BEFORE HIS
00:06:57ASSETS CAN BE SEIZED AND HELD
PERMANENTLY.
00:06:58THE SPONSOR LIST IN THE HOUSE IS
A WHO'S WHO OF CONSERVATIVE
00:07:05REPUBLICANS, INCLUDING
REPRESENTATIVES TOM BRINKMAN,
00:07:07JOHN BECKER, ANDREW BRENNER, RON
HOOD, AND RON YOUNG.
00:07:08BUT THE SENATE VERSION HAS
BIPARTISAN SUPPORT, INCLUDING
00:07:10REPUBLICANS BILL SEITZ, LARRY
OBHOF, AND JOHN EKLUND ALONG
00:07:12WITH DEMOCRATS CHARLETA TAVARES
AND MICHAEL SKINDELL.
00:07:14AND THE BILL HAS A BROAD
COALITION OF SUPPORTERS THAT
00:07:16COULD PERHAPS BEST BE DESCRIBED
AS STRANGE BEDFELLOWS, THE ACLU,
00:07:18THE NAACP, THE CONSERVATIVE
BUCKEYE INSTITUTE, AND THE TEA
00:07:19PARTY-AFFILIATED FREEDOMWORKS,
TO NAME JUST A FEW.
00:07:21TWO SPONSORS OF THE SENATE
VERSION WHO ARE ON OPPOSITE
00:07:23SIDES OF THE AISLE ARE HERE TO
TALK ABOUT WHY THEY BOTH SUPPORT
00:07:25IT.
THE BILL'S PRIMARY SPONSOR IS
00:07:27SENATOR KRIS JORDAN, A
REPUBLICAN FROM OSTRANDER IN
00:07:30DELAWARE COUNTY,
AND SENATOR CECIL THOMAS, IS A
00:07:32DEMOCRAT FROM CINCINNATI.
GENTLEMEN, THANK YOU VERY MUCH
00:07:38FOR BEING HERE.
I APPRECIATE IT.
00:07:39THE DISCUSSION ABOUT CIVIL ASSET
FORFEITURE HAS BEEN AROUND FOR A
00:07:43WHILE, BUT WHY NOW, WHY THIS
BILL?
00:07:47I WILL START WITH YOU, SENATOR
JORDAN.
00:07:50SENATOR JORDAN: THERE ARE
STORIES OF COLLEGE KIDS ARE
00:07:55GOING TO THE AIRPORT AND GETTING
THEIR ASSETS SEIZED, YOU KNOW,
00:08:00THEY'RE DEAD GIVE THEM A COUPLE
THOUSAND DOLLARS TO GO OUT, OR
00:08:02THEY DRIVE A COUPLE OF STATES
AWAY TO PURCHASE SOME FINE ART
00:08:05WITH SOME CASH.
YOU KNOW, I JUST THINK THAT ONE
00:08:11OF THE MOST FUNDAMENTAL THINGS
IN AMERICA IS THE RIGHT TO A
00:08:13FAIR TRIAL, AND YOUR INNOCENT
UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY.
00:08:15PEOPLE SHOULDN'T HAVE TO PROVE
THAT THEY ARE NOT GUILTY, THAT
00:08:21SHOULD BE UP TO THE GOVERNMENT
THAT THEY ARE GUILTY.
00:08:23THAT BURDEN OF PROOF SHOULD BE
PUT BACK ON THE GOVERNMENT.
00:08:26AND THERE ARE TOO MANY OCCASIONS
WERE PEOPLE HAVE TO FIGHT TO GET
00:08:31THEIR STUFF BACK WHEN IT IS
WRONGFULLY SEIZED.
00:08:32KAREN: LET ME ASK YOU, SENATOR
THOMAS, IF YOU REQUIRE A
00:08:38CONVICTION, AND THAT TAKES TIME,
OBVIOUSLY, ISN'T THERE A CHANCE
00:08:41AT THE PERSON WHO IS ACCUSED
COULD SPEND THE MONEY BEFORE THE
00:08:45CONVICTION OR SPENT A THAT
ILLEGAL MONEY ON THE HOUSE OR
00:08:49SPREAD IT AROUND THE
NEIGHBORHOOD?
00:08:50SENATOR THOMAS: WELL, THE ISSUE
IS ABOUT ACTUALLY SEIZING THE
00:08:55ASSETS AND THEN MAKING A CASE AS
TO WHY YOU SEIZED THOSE ASSETS.
00:09:00YOU MENTIONED THE WORD
"SUSPECT," AS AN SOMEONE IS
00:09:10SUSPECTED OF CRIMINAL ACTIVITY.
WELL, THAT IS NOT ENOUGH.
00:09:12YOU ACTUALLY HAVE TO HAVE A
CRIMINAL CASE AGAINST THIS
00:09:17INDIVIDUAL TO DETERMINE WHY YOU
SEES THAT MONEY.
00:09:18I HAVE SEEN MANY CASES WHERE A
LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS IN THE
00:09:22PAST WHERE THEY HAVE SEIZED
DOLLARS PRIOR TO A CONVICTION,
00:09:26AND THEN ONCE THE CONVICTION
PROCESS HAPPENED, THEY DIDN'T
00:09:32ACTUALLY GET A CONVICTION.
AND NOW THAT INDIVIDUAL CANNOT
00:09:35GET THAT MONEY BACK, BECAUSE HE
HAD TO PROVE THOSE ARE HIS
00:09:39DOLLARS OR HOW HE GOT THEM.
THAT IS NOT RIGHT.
00:09:42SO WE WANT TO TALK ABOUT DOING
FOR THINGS AND OBVIOUSLY HAD TO
00:09:45CORRECT IT.
IN MY CAREER, THERE ARE A LOT OF
00:09:49THINGS THAT WE SHOULD NOT DONE.
KAREN: AND I WANT TO ASK YOU,
00:09:54SENATOR THOMAS, BECAUSE YOU HAVE
A BACKGROUND IN LAW ENFORCEMENT,
00:09:56THERE WERE INSTANCES WHERE THERE
WERE INJUNCTIONS OF BASED ON
00:10:01VIOLENCE OR ACCUSATIONS.
WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE HERE?
00:10:05SENATOR THOMAS: THIS IS BASED IN
THE FACT THAT, BASED ON MY
00:10:08EXPERIENCE, YOU HAVE CREATED A
SYSTEM WHERE YOU SEE A,
00:10:14OFTENTIMES, THESE DOLLARS ARE
BEING CONFISCATED IN A MANNER
00:10:17THAT IS VERY QUESTIONABLE.
THE METHOD BY WHICH THOSE
00:10:22DOLLARS ARE DISPERSED THE COMES
VERY QUESTIONABLE.
00:10:24THERE ARE POLICIES THAT ARE
WRITTEN BY THE AGENCIES, BY THE
00:10:33LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY, AS WELL
AS THE PROSECUTOR'S OFFICE, THEY
00:10:36WRITE THE POLICY AND THEY MAKE
THE POLICY TO THEIR BENEFIT AND
00:10:40IT BECOMES A VERY SERIOUS
PROBLEM.
00:10:41KAREN: LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT
THIS, SENATOR JORDAN, THERE IS
00:10:47AN ARGUMENT THE POLICE HAVE AN
INCENTIVE TO SEIZE MONEY, IN
00:10:50PARTICULAR, BUT ALSO PROPERTY.
IF THEY CAN'T GO BACK TO THE
00:10:54OWNER, THEN IT GOES TO POLICE
PROPERTY, AND THE OWNER CAN'T
00:10:59HIRE A LAWYER, THEN IT GOES TO
THE POLICE.
00:11:01SENATOR JORDAN: MOST POLICE
OFFICERS AND MOST LAW
00:11:06ENFORCEMENT DO NOT ILLEGALLY
SEIZE ASSETS, WHAT IT DOES
00:11:08HAPPEN.
THERE ARE STUDIES OUT IN WESTERN
00:11:10STATES THAT THE SOUTHERN BOUND
LANE, THE ONE THAT TAKES THE
00:11:16MONEY TO MEXICO, THEY DO ABOUT
80% THROUGH AND 90% OF SEIZURES
00:11:22IN THE SOUTHBOUND LANES.
THERE IS A LOT OF INCENTIVE IN
00:11:27THE LAW-ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES TO
SEIZE THAT MONEY AND THEN BE
00:11:32ABLE TO SPEND THAT MONEY FOR
THEIR OWN OPERATIONS.
00:11:34IT JUST LOOKS LIKE THE FOX IS IN
THE HENHOUSE.
00:11:37WE WANT TO PREVENT UPPER BREAK
-- PREVENT THAT FROM BEING THE
00:11:43CASE.
WE ARE TAKING AWAY THEIR ABILITY
00:11:46TO SEIZE, BUT WE ARE GIVING
LAW-ABIDING CITIZENS TO GET
00:11:52THEIR STUFF BACK AND, AGAIN, WE
WANT TO REMIND EVERYONE THAT THE
00:12:01LAW IS INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN
GUILTY.
00:12:02KAREN: SOME SAY THAT IT WOULD
HAMSTRING THE POLICE AND BE A
00:12:06MISCARRIAGE OF JUSTICE.
WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO TRY TO
00:12:09DEAL WITH PROSECUTORS, IN
PARTICULAR, BECAUSE OF THEIR
00:12:13OPPOSITION?
SENATOR JORDAN: WE'VE PRETTY
00:12:14MUCH, ALL OF THE OPPOSITION,
THEY HAVE GIVEN US DIFFERENT
00:12:19EXAMPLES ABOUT HOW SOMEONE WOULD
DIE OR SOMEONE WOULD BE
00:12:25COMPLETELY UNABLE TO BE FOUND.
THEY WOULD LEAVE THE COUNTRY AND
00:12:28YOU WOULD NEVER FIND THEM AGAIN,
BUT YOU WOULD HAVE THEIR
00:12:30PROPERTY.
WE ARE WORKING ON AMENDMENTS TO
00:12:34GET HOPEFULLY OTHER PROSECUTORS
AND OTHER LAW ENFORCEMENT
00:12:37OFFICIALS ON BOARD WHERE IF YOU
CAN'T FIND THE OWNER AND THE
00:12:39OWNER LEAVES OR IF THEY DIE OR
IF SOMETHING ELSE HAPPENS, PRIOR
00:12:42TO THEM OF BEING CONVICTED, YOU
KNOW, YOU ARE ABLE TO KEEP THAT
00:12:49ASSET IF YOU CAN'T THE GROUND
WHERE TO RETURN IT.
00:12:50SENATOR THOMAS: YEAH, AND THEN
TO ADD TO THAT, YOU KNOW, WE
00:12:55JUST WANT EVERYBODY TO DO THE
RIGHT THING.
00:12:56IF THERE IS REASONABLE SUSPICION
OR WHATEVER THE CASE MAY BE TO
00:13:01SEIZE THE PROPERTY, ALL RIGHT,
FINE.
00:13:02NOW BUILD THE CASE.
BUT IF YOU CAN'T BUILD THE CASE,
00:13:06NO YOU GOT TO GIVE THOSE FOLKS
THEIR PROPERTY BACK.
00:13:08DON'T SAY, WELL, WE ARE GOING TO
TAKE UP PORTION OF IT AREA THAT
00:13:16IS RIDICULOUS.
AND THAT IS WHAT WE ARE TRYING
00:13:17TO DO.
AS A LAW-ENFORCEMENT ENFORCEMENT
00:13:20OFFICER, YOU GOT TO BE ABLE TO
BUILD YOUR CASE AND YOU CAN'T DO
00:13:21THAT OTHER METHOD.
IF YOU CAN'T BUILD YOUR CASE,
00:13:28YOU GOT TO GIVE THAT MONEY BACK.
KAREN: WHAT ABOUT SOMEONE WHO IS
00:13:31CHARGED WITH A CRIME -- WHO IS
NOT CHARGED WITH A CRIME, A BE
00:13:37THERE MONEY IS -- MAYBE THEIR
MONEY IS INVOLVED WITH CRIMINAL
00:13:44ACTIVITY?
SENATOR THOMAS: YOU CAN BUILD A
00:13:48CASE, WHICH IS WHAT LAW
ENFORCEMENT DECIDES TO DO, YOU
00:13:54HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO ARREST
SOMEONE, THEN YOU SHOULD BE
00:13:58PREPARED TO MAKE YOUR CASE.
SIMPLE AS THAT.
00:13:59KAREN: ANOTHER QUESTION IS
WHETHER CIVIL ASSET FORFEITURE
00:14:04LAWS ARE BEING OF USE, AND THERE
ARE QUESTIONS ABOUT THE NUMBERS
00:14:06THAT I HAD CITED EARLIER AND HOW
OFTEN THESE LAWS ARE BEING USED
00:14:10IN OHIO IF THEY ARE GOING TOO
FAR.
00:14:14SENDER JORDAN -- SENATOR JORDAN,
LET ME ASK YOU, ARE THESE LAWS
00:14:23BEING ABUSED?
SOME HAVE SAID THAT THIS IS A
00:14:29SOLUTION IN SEARCH OF A PROBLEM.
SENATOR JORDAN: NO, I AM NOT
00:14:34SAYING IT IS WIDELY ABUSED, BUT
ONE OR TWO CASES IS TOO MUCH.
00:14:38OUR FOUNDER, SENTINEL ADAMS -- A
SAMUEL ADAMS, SAID THAT'S WE
00:14:49HAVE A RIGHT TO OUR PROPERTY.
LAST YEAR, I JUST READ AN
00:14:53ARTICLE WHERE LAST YEAR, $6
BILLION WORTH OF ASSETS WERE
00:14:59SEIZED FROM AMERICANS BY THE
GOVERNMENT.
00:15:00ONLY 5 BILLION WAS STOLEN BY
CRIMINALS.
00:15:04YOU KNOW, SOME OF THAT MAY HAVE
BEEN SEIZED RIGHTFULLY IN
00:15:11CRIMINAL PROCEEDINGS OR WHAT
NOT, BUT YOU KNOW, IF IT WASN'T
00:15:14SEIZE RIGHTLY, IT SHOULD BE
RETURNED.
00:15:15PERIOD.
KAREN: IF YOU LOOK AT FEDERAL
00:15:20LAW, BECAUSE A LOT OF THESE
CASES INVOLVE FEDERAL LAW, DO
00:15:26YOU THINK THAT FEDERAL LAW IS
NOT ENOUGH THAT WE DON'T DO
00:15:28ENOUGH ON THE STATE LEVEL?
SENATOR JORDAN: THERE IS A LOT
00:15:32OF COOPERATION BETWEEN STATE AND
FEDERAL OFFICIALS IN ORDER TO
00:15:34GET THEIR CUT.
YOU KNOW, I THINK WE NEED TO
00:15:39TIGHTEN UP WHAT WE DO HERE IN
OHIO AND NOT GIVE A HUGE
00:15:41INCENTIVE FOR PEOPLE TO GO AFTER
PEOPLE OF ASSETS WRONGFULLY.
00:15:46THAT IS JUST BECAUSE THEY WILL
GET A PORTION OF THOSE DOLLARS.
00:15:51SENATOR THOMAS: AT THE FEDERAL
LEVEL, 80% OF THE PROPERTY THAT
00:15:59IS SEIZE, THE VICTIMS AND THE
INDIVIDUALS ARE NOT CHARGED,
00:16:0080%.
THAT IS A STAGGERING NUMBER AND
00:16:03THAT MAKES ME THINK, WAIT A
MINUTE NOW, YOU ARE JUST
00:16:07GRABBING FOLKS' PROPERTY EVEN
THOUGH YOU DON'T REALLY HAVE A
00:16:13CASE AGAINST THE INDIVIDUAL.
THAT IS NOT THE WAY THAT WE DO
00:16:16BUSINESS AND IS NOT THE WAY THAT
WE SHOULD BE DOING BUSINESS.
00:16:18IT IS JUST WRONG.
KAREN: SENATOR JORDAN HAS SAID
00:16:22THAT THERE ARE SOME AMENDMENTS
BEING PROPOSED, LET ME A FEW
00:16:28BOTH, ARE YOU A LITTLE BIT
CONCERNED ABOUT THE AMENDMENTS
00:16:31THAT YOU ARE WATERING DOWN IN
THIS BILL?
00:16:32SENATOR THOMAS: YOU KNOW, THERE
IS ALWAYS COMPROMISE.
00:16:34THERE IS ALWAYS ROOM TO TRY TO
FIND A WAY TO GET A WIN-WIN FOR
00:16:43EVERYBODY.
THE MOST IMPORTANT THING HERE IS
00:16:48PROTECTING THE CITIZENS AND
THEIR RIGHTS.
00:16:49WE DON'T WANT TO STEP ON THE
CITIZENS OF THEIR RIGHTS.
00:16:51IF YOU HAVE SOMEBODY WHO KNOWS
SOMETHING, YOU CAN FIND A WAY OF
00:16:59FIGURING THAT OUT IMPROVING IT.
YOU DON'T WANT TO STEP ON THE
00:17:01RIGHTS OF AN INDIVIDUAL.
JUST LIKE MYSELF, I DON'T WANT
00:17:05MY MONEY TAKEN IF I HAVE $1000
IN MY POCKET AND I HAVE JUST
00:17:11COME FROM SOMEWHERE AND I HAD
$1000 FROM A CASINO OR SOMETHING
00:17:15AND I GET STOPPED, AND AN
OFFICER SAYS, WELL THIS MONEY
00:17:18THAT THIS DOG SMELLS HAS
MARIJUANA ON THE MONEY.
00:17:21SO THEY TAKE THE MONEY.
AND NOW I AM IN A SITUATION
00:17:25WHERE I HAVE TO GO THROUGH THE
COURT AND GET THAT MONEY BACK.
00:17:27THAT IS NOT RIGHT.
KAREN: LET ME ASK YOU, SENATOR
00:17:31JORDAN, THE IDEA OF UNIT AND
MORE AMENDMENT'S HERE.
00:17:35IS THERE A DANGER OF HAVING HIS
ILL WATERED DOWN, AS YOU SEE IT?
00:17:37-- HAVING THIS BILL WATERED
DOWN, AS YOU SEE IT?
00:17:44SENATOR JORDAN: THESE SHOULD NOT
BE BASED ON A HUNCH.
00:17:48PEOPLE SHOULD BE TRIED AND
CONVICTED OF A CRIME, NOT JUST,
00:17:53WE HAVE A HUNCH YOU ARE DOING
SOMETHING BAD SO WE ARE GOING TO
00:17:56TAKE YOUR CAR AND WE ARE GOING
TO TAKE YOUR MONEY AND WE ARE
00:17:58GOING TO TAKE YOUR OTHER
PROPERTY.
00:17:59KAREN: DO YOU WORRY THAT COULD
MAKE POLICE WORK MORE DIFFICULT?
00:18:03SENATOR JORDAN: NO, I THINK IT
IS JUST A MATTER OF KEEPING
00:18:07PEOPLE HONEST.
IF THEY CANNOT FIND ENOUGH
00:18:12EVIDENCE ON SOMEONE TO CHARGE
THEM OR CONVICT THEM, YOU KNOW,
00:18:16WE CAN'T THROW PEOPLE IN JAIL
ACED ON A HUNCH, SO WE SHOULDN'T
00:18:21BE ALLOWED TO TAKE THEIR
PROPERTY BASED ON A HUNCH.
00:18:22-- JAIL BASED ON A HUNCH, SO WE
SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO TAKE THEIR
00:18:27PROPERTY BASED ON A HUNCH.
KAREN: DO YOU SEE THAT THIS IS A
00:18:34POSSIBILITY OF MAKING POLICE
WORK HARDER?
00:18:35SENATOR THOMAS: I THINK IT WILL
MAKE POLICE WORK MORE EFFICIENT.
00:18:38WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT ALL OF
OUR T'S ARE CROSSED AND OUR I'S
00:18:46ARE DOTTED.
ANYTIME YOU LESSEN THE ABILITY
00:18:54OF OUR LAWS TO DO WHAT THEY ARE
SUPPOSED TO DO, THEN YOU OPEN UP
00:18:57THE DOOR FOR A LOT OF PROBLEMS.
THIS IS A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF
00:19:00THAT.
WE HAVE SEEN SO MANY CASES OF
00:19:07PEOPLE COMPLAINING, FROM A YOUNG
MAN STANDING ON THE STREET
00:19:10QUARTER WITH $100 IN HIS POCKET,
TWO PEOPLE GOING TO BUY ART WITH
00:19:14$20,000 IN THEIR POCKET.
PEOPLE ARE COMPLAINING.
00:19:18AND WE NEED TO CORRECT THAT.
AND OFFICERS CAN STILL DO THEIR
00:19:20JOB.
KAREN: AND SENATOR JORDAN, SINCE
00:19:23YOU ARE NOT IN A HOUSE, AS YOU
MENTIONED IN THE BEGINNING, THE
00:19:28HOUSE IS ALL REPUBLICANS, BUT IN
THE SENATE, YOU HAVE BIPARTISAN
00:19:30SUPPORT, SO ARE YOU LOOKING TO
BRING MORE DEMOCRATS FROM THE
00:19:34HOUSE SPONSORED BILL?
SENATOR JORDAN: I WOULD HOPE SO,
00:19:39BECAUSE IT AFFECTS EVERYBODY.
LIKE YOU SAID, IT AFFECTS URBAN
00:19:41AREAS AND PEOPLE WHO WERE
DRIVING WITH TENS OF THOUSANDS
00:19:44OF DOLLARS OUT OF STATE TO BUY
ART.
00:19:45IT AFFECTS US ALL AND WE ALL
DESERVE THE RIGHT TO OUR OWN
00:19:49EFFORTS, OUR ONLY, AND ARE A
PROPERTY, AND WE JUST SHOULDN'T
00:19:54BE AFRAID OF THE GOVERNMENT
SEIZING IT BASED ON HUNCHES.
00:19:56KAREN: SENATOR KRIS JORDAN AND
SENATOR CECIL THOMAS, THANK YOU.
00:20:02SENATOR JORDAN: THANK YOU.
SENATOR THOMAS: THANK YOU.
00:20:05KAREN: THERE ARE MORE THAN
50,000 MEN AND WOMEN BEHIND BARS
00:20:10IN OHIO.
AND WHILE THE CRIMES THEY'VE
00:20:11COMMITTED HAVE DONE PERMANENT
DAMAGE TO THEIR VICTIMS, THEIR
00:20:12FAMILIES AND THEIR COMMUNITIES,
SOME INMATES ARE TRYING TO FIND
00:20:14WAYS TO IMPROVE THEMSELVES AND
MAKE THE WORLD A BIT BETTER.
00:20:17SOME ARE CONTINUING THEIR
EDUCATIONS, SOME ARE LEARNING
00:20:18NEW TRADES AND SKILLS, AND SOME
ARE CREATING AMAZING WORKS OF
00:20:19ART.
KAREN: THE EXHIBITION "INSIDE
00:20:23LOOKING OUT: CREATIVE WORKS BY
OHIO PRISON INMATES" IS A
00:20:25PROJECT OF THE CORRECTIONAL
INSTITUTION INSPECTION
00:20:29COMMITTEE, THE DEPARTMENT OF
REHABILITATION AND CORRECTION,
00:20:30AND THE OHIO ARTS COUNCIL.
THE DISPLAY FEATURES PORTRAITS,
00:20:33LANDSCAPES, PHOTOREALISTIC
IMAGES, AND THREE DIMENSIONAL
00:20:44WORKS IN A VARIETY OF MEDIA --
SOME VERY UNEXPECTED.
00:20:46MARY GRAY IS THE DIRECTOR OF THE
OHIO ARTS COUNCIL'S RIFFE
00:20:48GALLERY.
MARY GRAY: I DON'T KNOW ABOUT
00:20:55YOU, BUT I HAVE NEVER WALKED
INTO A MUSEUM OR A GALLERY AND
00:20:57HAVE SEEN A SCULPTURE OF SOAP.
THIS IS ONE OF MY FAVORITE
00:21:03PIECES IN THE WHOLE SHOW BECAUSE
IT IS SO UNIQUE.
00:21:05THE ONE HERE IS MADE OUT OF
TONGUE DEPRESSORS, POPSICLE
00:21:08STICKS, TOOTHPICKS, YEAH.
WE HAVE THIS MADE OUT OF BATH
00:21:14MATS.
THESE INDIVIDUALS HAVE LIMITED
00:21:19RESOURCES AND THEY DO GREAT WORK
WITH WHAT THEY HAVE.
00:21:20KAREN: THE ARTWORK ENDED UP IN
THE EXHIBIT ACROSS FROM THE
00:21:21STATEHOUSE AFTER REGIONAL
COMPETITIONS SET UP BY THE
00:21:23PRISONS DEPARTMENT.
ONE OF THOSE ARTISTS IS DONNY
00:21:28INMAN FROM CHILLICOTHE,
CURRENTLY HOUSED AT THE
00:21:30SOUTHEASTERN CORRECTIONAL
COMPLEX IN LANCASTER.
00:21:32HE'S IN THE LAST PART OF AN
EIGHT YEAR MANDATORY SENTENCE
00:21:35FOR ILLEGAL MANUFACTURING OF
DRUGS, SPECIFICALLY, MARIJUANA.
00:21:40DONNY IMMAN: I GET A LOT OF
ENJOYMENT OUT OF DOING THIS
00:21:44STUFF.
A LOT OF PEOPLE GET A LOT OF
00:21:46ENJOYMENT OUT OF WHAT I DO.
IT IS TAKINGS OF A NEGATIVE OUT
00:21:50OF A POSITIVE.
I WORK HARD EVERY DAY AT WHAT I
00:21:53DO AND AT THE END OF THE WEEK, I
WORK HARD THROUGHOUT THE MONTH
00:22:00AND AT THE END OF THE YEAR, I
SEE MY RESULTS.
00:22:01KAREN: WHAT IS IT ME TO YOU TO
BE SELECTED TO BE IN THIS VERY
00:22:06FIRST EXHIBITION?
DONNY IMMAN: IT WAS AWESOME, IT
00:22:12WAS AWESOME.
THEY TOLD ME I WAS GOING TO BE
00:22:13ON THE FRONT-PAGE OF THE
NEWSPAPER.
00:22:14MY FAMILY IS VERY PROUD OF ME
AND MY GIRLFRIEND IS VERY PROUD
00:22:18OF ME.
I HAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE BEHIND ME
00:22:20WHO BELIEVE IN ME AND BELIEVE IN
MY JOURNEY.
00:22:21THEY ARE HELPING ME OUT.
KAREN: INMAN HOPES HIS SKILLS AS
00:22:26AN ARTIST WILL HELP HIM EARN A
LIVING PAINTING PINSTRIPES,
00:22:28GRAPHICS AND MURALS ON CARS,
MOTORCYCLES AND HELMETS, AND HE
00:22:34HAS OTHER IDEAS ON HOW TO USE
HIS ARTISTIC SKILLS, WHICH HE
00:22:36SAYS HE'S ALWAYS HAD.
JOANNA SAUL IS THE DIRECTOR OF
00:22:49THE PROGRAM, AND SAYS THAT WAS
ANOTHER IMPORTANT REASON FOR THE
00:22:51EXHIBITION, TO CHANGE AND WIDEN
THE IMAGE PEOPLE OFTEN HAVE OF
00:22:53THOSE BEHIND BARS.
THE WORK IN THIS EXHIBITION IS
00:22:54CAREFULLY CRAFTED WITH LOTS OF
DETAIL, SUCH AS THIS MOTORCYCLE,
00:22:56WHICH IS ACTUALLY A MUSIC BOX
THAT PLAYS "BAD TO THE BONE,"
00:22:58AND THIS INTRICATELY INLAID
WOODEN JEWELRY BOX.
00:23:02SAUL SAYS IT HAS GOTTEN A LOT OF
ATTENTION.
00:23:07JOANNA SAUL: THERE WAS SOMEBODY
WHO IS INTERESTED IN PURCHASING
00:23:11THAT WOULD WORK, SO IT IS
IMPORTANT TO THE INMATES, NOT
00:23:17JUST NOW FOR BUILDING SKILLS
PRIOR TO THEIR RELEASE, BUT EVEN
00:23:19AFTER THEIR RELEASE.
KAREN: THAT IS PART OF WHAT YOU
00:23:24ARE HOPING FOR, HELPING INMATES
WERE GOING TO LEAVE PRISON TO
00:23:27MAKE A LIVING ONCE THEY ARE OUT?
JOANNA SAUL: ABSOLUTELY, REENTRY
00:23:31IS WHAT IT IS ALL ABOUT.
KAREN: BUT FOR SOME INMATES,
00:23:36RE-ENTRY WILL NEVER BE POSSIBLE.
INDEED, SOME OF THE ARTISTS
00:23:37WHOSE WORK IS FEATURED IN THIS
EXHIBIT ARE SERVING MULTIPLE
00:23:39LIFE SENTENCES.
JOANNA SAUL: AND THAT IS TRULY
00:23:43ONE OF THE SADDEST PARTS OF THIS
, THERE ARE INMATES HERE WHO ARE
00:23:48SERVING MULTIPLE LIFE SENTENCES.
THEY HAVE COMMITTED HEINOUS
00:23:51ACTS, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, THEY
ARE CAPABLE OF PRODUCING
00:23:55BEAUTIFUL ART, AND I THINK THOSE
THINGS NEED TO BE RECOGNIZED.
00:23:57KAREN: ARE YOU RECOGNIZE AT ALL
BY THE THINGS THEY HAVE CHOSEN
00:24:03TO REPRESENT, THE THINGS THEY
HAVE CHOSEN TO DRAW AND
00:24:04RE-CREATE?
JOANNA SAUL: ABSOLUTELY.
00:24:05AGAIN, A LOT OF TIMES PEOPLE
HAVE A PERCEPTION OF CRIMINALS
00:24:12AND THE THUG LIFE, BUT WILL --
BUT HEAR WHAT YOU ARE SEEING OUR
00:24:17COUNTRY PICTURES, A BATTLESHIP,
AN AMERICAN FLAG.
00:24:19THEY HAVE THE SAME SENSE OF
COUNTRY AS ANY OF THE REST OF
00:24:22US.
KAREN: MARY GRAY WITH THE OAC
00:24:25SAYS THE WORK IN THIS SHOW IS AS
GOOD AS SHE'S SEEN FROM
00:24:27PROFESSIONAL ARTISTS, AND SHE
SAYS IT SHOWS HOW IMPORTANT
00:24:28HAVING AN OUTLET FOR
SELF-EXPRESSION AND TO SHOW
00:24:31ONE'S TALENT, DREAMS AND SOUL
CAN BE.
00:24:34MARY GRAY: JOANNA AND I WENT UP
TO MANSFIELD PRISON AND I BOUGHT
00:24:42A LARGE PAINTING OF A BEAUTIFUL
COUNTRY ROAD.
00:24:48IT IS IDYLLIC AS YOU CAN IMAGINE
.
00:24:50I CAN ONLY THINK OF THE PERSON
BEHIND THIS PAINTING, AND IF I
00:24:56CAN SAY THIS, THIS PERSON IS
SERVING TWO LIFE SENTENCES.
00:24:59HE WILL NEVER SEE THAT COUNTRY
ROAD EVER AGAIN, BUT IT WILL
00:25:03NEVER LEAVE HIS IMAGINATION.
THE ART TO LOVE HIM TO GO TO
00:25:06THAT BEAUTIFUL PLACE.
KAREN: THE WORK IS DISPLAYED
00:25:08WITHOUT THE ARTIST'S NAME --
JUST THE FACILITY WHERE THE
00:25:10INMATE IS HOUSED, TO PROTECT
VICTIMS AND THEIR SURVIVORS.
00:25:13SAUL IS HOPING THIS WILL BECOME
AN ANNUAL EXHIBIT OF INMATE
00:25:16ARTWORK.
THE EXHIBIT IS ON DISPLAY
00:25:18THROUGH JANUARY 9 IN THE LOBBY
OF THE VERN RIFFE CENTER ON
00:25:20CAPITOL SQUARE IN COLUMBUS.
AND THAT'S IT FOR THIS WEEK.
00:25:23FOR MY COLLEAGUES AT OHIO PUBLIC
RADIO AND TELEVISION, THANKS FOR
00:25:25WATCHING.
IF YOU'D LIKE TO ASK QUESTIONS,
00:25:28MAKE COMMENTS, OR WATCH THIS
WEEK'S SHOW OR EARLIER EPISODES,
00:25:31PLEASE VISIT OUR WEBSITE AT
STATENEWS.ORG, OR WATCH ON THE
00:25:34OHIO CHANNEL'S WEBSITE OR AT
IDEASTREAM.ORG/OHIO.
00:25:38AND YOU CAN FOLLOW JO INGLES,
ANDY CHOW, AND ME ON TWITTER.
00:25:43HAPPY NEW YEAR AND PLEASE JOIN
, US AGAIN NEXT TIME FOR "THE
00:25:45STATE OF OHIO."
ANNOUNCER: SUPPORT FOR THE
00:25:47STATEWIDE BROADCAST OF THE
"STATE OF OHIO" COMES FROM THE
00:25:48LAW OFFICES OF PORTER, WRIGHT,
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00:25:50BUSINESS AND INDIVIDUAL WITH
COMPLEX LEGAL PROBLEMS IN OHIO,
00:25:51ACROSS THE COUNTRY, AND AROUND
THE WORLD.
00:25:53ONLINE AT PORTERWRIGHT.COM.
AND FROM THE OHIO EDUCATION
00:25:54ASSOCIATION, REPRESENTING
120,000 MEMBERS WHO WORK TO
00:25:55INSPIRE THEIR STUDENTS TO THINK
CREATIVELY AND EXPERIENCE THE
00:25:57JOY OF LEARNING.
Note : Transcripts are compiled from uncorrected captions