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The State of Ohio

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A controversial higher education bill is back, as the sponsor promised - and it's the top priority for senators. We'll hear from that sponsor and from the plan's opponents on"The State of Ohio". Studio guests are Senate Finance Comm. Chair Jerry Cirino (R-Kirtland) and Rep. Tom Young (R-Washington Twp.)

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00:00:38	A controversial
00:00:39	higher education bill is back,
00:00:39	as the sponsor promised.
00:00:42	And it's the top priority
00:00:42	for senators.
00:00:45	We'll hear from that sponsor
00:00:45	and from the plan's opponents
00:00:47	this weekend
00:00:47	in the state of Ohio.
00:01:07	Just.
00:01:08	Welcome to the state of Ohio.
00:01:10	I'm Karen Kasler.
00:01:11	As expected,
00:01:11	the bill conservatives say
00:01:13	will combat liberal
00:01:14	indoctrination on college
00:01:14	campuses has returned.
00:01:17	And opponents are gearing up
00:01:17	to fight back.
00:01:20	What was Senate
00:01:20	Bill 83 last session is now
00:01:23	set of Bill one,
00:01:24	as announced by sponsoring
00:01:25	Republican Senator
00:01:25	Jerry Serino this week.
00:01:27	Along with the companion House
00:01:27	bill sponsor, representative
00:01:30	Tom Young and Senate Committee
00:01:30	Chair Christina Rovner,
00:01:34	who says hearings could start
00:01:34	in the next week.
00:01:37	Senate Bill
00:01:37	one looks a lot like Senate
00:01:37	Bill 83 in several ways.
00:01:41	It includes a ban on most D-ii
00:01:41	programs,
00:01:44	with some exceptions
00:01:44	for federal grant money.
00:01:46	A ban on faculty strikes,
00:01:46	which had been eliminated
00:01:49	in Senate Bill 83
00:01:49	as a compromise
00:01:51	trustee terms of six years,
00:01:51	down from nine.
00:01:55	Performance
00:01:55	reviews for faculty,
00:01:56	including those with tenure,
00:01:58	with evaluations by students
00:01:58	as a part of that,
00:02:01	a ban on universities
00:02:01	taking public positions
00:02:03	on controversial subjects,
00:02:05	a required course covering
00:02:05	American history,
00:02:07	foundational documents,
00:02:07	and capitalism.
00:02:10	A five year cost summary
00:02:11	from universities
00:02:11	getting state money,
00:02:13	a ban on financial
00:02:13	partnerships with China,
00:02:16	and a requirement
00:02:17	that syllabi from classes
00:02:17	be published online.
00:02:20	Senate Bill one
00:02:21	also adds a review
00:02:21	by the Chancellor
00:02:23	of the possibility
00:02:23	of three year
00:02:25	bachelor's degrees
00:02:25	for some courses of study.
00:02:28	The bill comes
00:02:28	as what are termed independent
00:02:31	academic centers
00:02:31	are being launched at Ohio
00:02:33	State University,
00:02:33	the University of Toledo,
00:02:35	Cleveland State
00:02:35	University, Miami University,
00:02:38	and the University
00:02:38	of Cincinnati.
00:02:39	These centers,
00:02:39	supported by Republicans
00:02:41	and funded with $24 million
00:02:41	in the current state budget,
00:02:44	are expected to teach
00:02:44	and research
00:02:46	constitutional studies
00:02:46	and American history.
00:02:49	I talked to Serino and Young
00:02:49	about their bills.
00:02:51	That conversation
00:02:51	is coming up.
00:02:54	A dozen or so protesters
00:02:54	came to the state House
00:02:56	to push back against Senate
00:02:57	Bill one,
00:02:57	as it was being announced,
00:02:57	with the same concerns
00:03:00	they had about the previous
00:03:00	bill,
00:03:02	which got through the Senate
00:03:02	and a House committee,
00:03:04	but died when then Speaker
00:03:04	Jason Stevens said
00:03:07	it didn't have the votes
00:03:07	to be brought to the floor.
00:03:09	State House correspondent
00:03:09	Joe Ingles
00:03:11	talked to
00:03:11	some of those demonstrators.
00:03:13	As the sponsors of HB
00:03:13	one were laying out
00:03:15	their bill for reporters
00:03:15	in a press conference.
00:03:18	About two dozen
00:03:20	protesters were chanting
00:03:20	in the hallway outside.
00:03:24	To back background, many
00:03:24	that was under my feet.
00:03:28	That is actually stripping us
00:03:28	of our freedoms
00:03:29	of free speech
00:03:29	in the classroom.
00:03:31	And it's an attack on higher
00:03:31	ed in general.
00:03:33	For example,
00:03:33	they've said in the past
00:03:34	that the Holocaust should be
00:03:34	taught on both sides,
00:03:38	which is insane
00:03:38	and very fascist to say.
00:03:42	And yeah,
00:03:42	there shouldn't be, room
00:03:45	for students
00:03:45	to say that the Holocaust
00:03:45	has never happened
00:03:47	or that the Nazis
00:03:47	were correct.
00:03:49	Some professors said
00:03:49	it would be impossible
00:03:52	to teach certain subjects
00:03:52	under the new limitations.
00:03:55	Pranav Johnny says instructors
00:03:55	are not indoctrinating
00:03:59	students,
00:04:00	but rather encouraging them
00:04:00	to think critically.
00:04:03	He says it would be impossible
00:04:04	to teach some subjects labeled
00:04:04	controversial, like Martin
00:04:08	Luther King's letter from a
00:04:08	Birmingham jail, for example.
00:04:12	How can you say
00:04:14	students are required
00:04:15	to read letter
00:04:15	from a Birmingham jail,
00:04:17	and also say
00:04:19	that structural racism
00:04:19	is a controversial topic?
00:04:22	Because guess what he talks
00:04:23	about
00:04:23	in that letter, by the way?
00:04:25	Guess why he's in jail.
00:04:26	They don't want us to teach
00:04:28	the history of how he got into
00:04:28	jail in the first place,
00:04:31	but they put him
00:04:31	in, in a quite tokenistic way
00:04:34	to say that they're interested
00:04:34	in a black writer as well.
00:04:38	So there's
00:04:38	a bunch of racial politics.
00:04:40	There's a bunch of gender
00:04:40	politics.
00:04:42	There's anti-China politics.
00:04:43	There's all sorts of things
00:04:45	in here that contradict
00:04:45	the stated position,
00:04:49	which is we're
00:04:49	for intellectual diversity
00:04:51	and not for one side
00:04:51	being presented, you know,
00:04:54	and on the other hand,
00:04:54	limiting what we can do
00:04:57	based on research facts
00:04:57	and telling the truth.
00:05:00	And Christopher
00:05:00	McKnight Nichols, a history
00:05:03	professor at OSU
00:05:03	and the Woody Hayes Chair
00:05:06	in National Security Studies,
00:05:06	said the anti-union provision
00:05:10	will be widely opposed,
00:05:12	especially since it
00:05:12	reaches beyond universities.
00:05:16	I think one of the things
00:05:16	we saw with SB 83 was
00:05:19	you saw Pipefitters,
00:05:19	you saw police unions.
00:05:21	Lots of people
00:05:21	didn't like these
00:05:23	attacks on union organizing,
00:05:23	collective bargaining
00:05:26	and that sort of thing.
00:05:27	So I think that's likely
00:05:27	to have a much more widespread
00:05:29	ramifications
00:05:29	than just hiring,
00:05:32	you know, other things
00:05:32	that I think stand out here
00:05:33	are the ones that appear
00:05:33	to students to be attacks
00:05:36	on their community
00:05:36	and identity.
00:05:38	Nick Nichols also said
00:05:38	this bill could negatively
00:05:41	impact campus groups
00:05:41	that support minority students
00:05:45	who need support within
00:05:45	the university community.
00:05:48	We'll be back.
00:05:51	Students
00:05:51	laughed at the assertion
00:05:53	made by sponsors of the bill
00:05:55	that they're being influenced
00:05:55	by liberal woke professors,
00:05:59	or that they're getting
00:05:59	extra credit for protesting.
00:06:03	But some say
00:06:03	if this bill goes through,
00:06:03	it will make them and others
00:06:07	think long and hard before
00:06:07	committing to staying in Ohio.
00:06:12	Joe Ingles,
00:06:12	Statehouse news Bureau.
00:06:15	As I mentioned,
00:06:15	I sat down with Senator
00:06:17	Serino and Representative
00:06:17	Young
00:06:19	to talk about their bills
00:06:19	and why they're needed.
00:06:22	Especially Sen
00:06:22	Serino has said
00:06:22	some universities
00:06:24	are already making changes.
00:06:26	And the five intellectual
00:06:27	diversity
00:06:27	centers are getting going.
00:06:30	Why is this needed?
00:06:31	You say some colleges
00:06:31	and universities
00:06:33	have made some changes
00:06:33	here. You've got those five
00:06:35	intellectual diversity
00:06:35	centers.
00:06:37	Why this bill?
00:06:38	Well,
00:06:38	I think it's it's true that
00:06:40	since we announced
00:06:40	a Senate Bill 83,
00:06:43	and as it went
00:06:43	through the process
00:06:44	in the last General Assembly,
00:06:46	many of the aspects in
00:06:46	the bill
00:06:49	have actually been adopted by,
00:06:49	some of the universities
00:06:52	and community colleges.
00:06:53	And that's good
00:06:54	because they're seeing the
00:06:54	need to make these changes.
00:06:57	But I think it's pretty clear
00:06:57	that while the civic centers,
00:07:00	the five civic centers
00:07:00	that you're referring to,
00:07:02	they're not all up
00:07:05	and running yet,
00:07:05	but they're in the process of
00:07:06	getting there.
00:07:07	Those are really going to be
00:07:07	dealing more with curriculum,
00:07:11	in exposing students to
00:07:11	diversity of thought and, and,
00:07:15	and to civics, documentation,
00:07:15	founding fathers, documents
00:07:20	and etc.,
00:07:21	where the rest of the bill
00:07:22	really deals with establishing
00:07:22	and changing policies,
00:07:25	which these five centers
00:07:25	can't do.
00:07:28	That's not their task.
00:07:29	The task of changing
00:07:29	policy is with the legislature
00:07:32	in coordination
00:07:32	and hopefully with cooperation
00:07:35	from the boards of trustees.
00:07:36	the attention to
00:07:37	this bill is going to get
00:07:39	mostly will center on things
00:07:39	like the ban on Dei
00:07:42	training programs,
00:07:42	the ban on faculty strikes.
00:07:45	Some of that kind of stuff.
00:07:46	But I want to ask you,
00:07:46	Representative Young.
00:07:48	Higher education is important
00:07:48	because it trains people
00:07:50	to enter the workforce and
00:07:52	it, to go out and function
00:07:52	in the real world.
00:07:54	So how does this help
00:07:54	people do that?
00:07:56	Well, diversity.
00:07:57	What what I believe
00:07:57	the bill says to me is that
00:08:03	let's get the focus away from
00:08:03	Dei and let's focus on true.
00:08:11	Discussion,
00:08:11	open discussion and education
00:08:15	to educate our workforce,
00:08:15	because this has been a focus
00:08:19	for way
00:08:19	too long in my opinion.
00:08:22	And, Ohio needs to
00:08:25	we need to focus
00:08:25	higher ed on just not this.
00:08:29	Because if this
00:08:29	when we pass this legislation,
00:08:32	we need to get back to doing
00:08:32	what higher ed does,
00:08:36	and that is create
00:08:36	intellectual capital.
00:08:39	Well,
00:08:39	let me stay with you on this.
00:08:40	Some critics of Dei programs
00:08:42	said they encourage division
00:08:42	and discrimination.
00:08:45	So what is the alternative?
00:08:46	To encourage inclusion
00:08:46	and discourage discrimination?
00:08:50	Because you don't want
00:08:50	certain groups
00:08:52	to be discriminated against,
00:08:52	right?
00:08:53	Well, we do have,
00:08:53	federal laws on the books
00:08:57	that take care
00:08:57	of the discrimination.
00:08:59	And we reference those
00:08:59	in the bill. Right.
00:09:02	So we we are, in essence,
00:09:02	putting more
00:09:05	a wraparound on a focus
00:09:05	that's already taken care
00:09:09	of in federal law
00:09:09	and state law, right now.
00:09:13	And, like I said to,
00:09:13	we've created a sub,
00:09:18	subchapter.
00:09:20	And that subchapter has to do
00:09:20	with higher education.
00:09:24	And it's unnecessary.
00:09:26	Let me ask you,
00:09:26	Senator Serino,
00:09:28	there are some changes
00:09:28	in the bill
00:09:29	that even some critics
00:09:29	might think are positive,
00:09:31	for instance, six year terms
00:09:33	for trustees
00:09:33	instead of nine years,
00:09:34	because there's been
00:09:34	a difficulty
00:09:36	in finding qualified people
00:09:36	willing to serve nine years,
00:09:39	studying the possibility of a
00:09:39	three year bachelor's degree.
00:09:43	The, the, syllabi
00:09:43	being online, which I think,
00:09:47	a lot of people might support,
00:09:48	but protesters did show up
00:09:48	at your press conference and,
00:09:52	they also hundreds of them
00:09:52	turned out at a hearing
00:09:55	when this was in the hearing
00:09:57	process in 2023
00:09:57	and without written testimony,
00:10:00	there are a lot of opponents
00:10:00	to this bill.
00:10:03	So do you want to
00:10:03	convince them that
00:10:07	this bill needs their support
00:10:08	and you want their support,
00:10:08	or is their opposition okay?
00:10:11	Well, look up
00:10:11	opposition is fine.
00:10:12	I mean, this is a free speech,
00:10:12	bill.
00:10:14	You know what
00:10:14	all said and done.
00:10:16	And so it would
00:10:16	be ridiculous for me to, to
00:10:19	make any comments that would
00:10:21	be contrary to their right to,
00:10:21	to protest or disagree.
00:10:24	Certainly.
00:10:24	But these are all
00:10:26	a lot of the same people
00:10:26	that that protested at 83.
00:10:29	And I, I have heard them
00:10:29	they have
00:10:32	they have come
00:10:32	to our committees
00:10:34	and testified,
00:10:34	we've given them
00:10:36	tremendous leeway, in terms
00:10:36	of the numbers of hours
00:10:40	that we have had hearings,
00:10:40	to hear, opponents.
00:10:43	But I think in
00:10:43	some of these issues,
00:10:45	they're just simply either
00:10:45	uninformed
00:10:47	or they've
00:10:47	already made up their mind
00:10:49	and they're simply not
00:10:49	open to,
00:10:51	seeing anything
00:10:51	good in the bill.
00:10:52	I have run into
00:10:52	lots of opponents
00:10:55	who just say we don't like
00:10:55	anything in the bill,
00:10:58	and I, I would challenge them
00:10:58	and I would challenge
00:11:01	anybody in the media to to ask
00:11:01	some very basic questions
00:11:05	about aspects of the bill that
00:11:05	everybody should agree with.
00:11:08	And, and yet they don't seem
00:11:08	to be willing to do that.
00:11:11	It's it's Senate Bill 83.
00:11:13	In the past, Senate Bill one.
00:11:15	Now we just don't like it.
00:11:17	And it's bad for education
00:11:17	and bad for students
00:11:20	and whatever else
00:11:20	they want to call it.
00:11:21	And I think they're
00:11:23	being disingenuous
00:11:23	in that evaluation.
00:11:25	You made some comments
00:11:25	about faculty.
00:11:27	And again,
00:11:27	there's a ban on faculty
00:11:27	strikes,
00:11:28	which was compromised out
00:11:28	in Senate Bill 83
00:11:32	to get the bill
00:11:32	through the House,
00:11:33	which it did not get through,
00:11:33	obviously.
00:11:35	Otherwise we wouldn't be here
00:11:35	discussing this now.
00:11:37	But you made some comments
00:11:39	about faculty,
00:11:39	that that really,
00:11:41	I think, set them on edge,
00:11:41	that, they are
00:11:45	that they may have given
00:11:45	their students extra credit
00:11:47	for coming to the protest
00:11:47	and and some things like that.
00:11:49	You say
00:11:49	this bill is not anti-union.
00:11:51	How do you square
00:11:51	those things?
00:11:53	Well, it is
00:11:53	it is not anti-union in
00:11:53	the sense that if you look at,
00:11:56	as I explained in the press
00:11:56	conference earlier, that,
00:12:00	you know,
00:12:00	when a student signs up to
00:12:02	for classes for a semester,
00:12:02	they have to pay for those
00:12:05	instruction hours, right?
00:12:07	Or they can't take the class.
00:12:08	We don't I don't think we do
00:12:08	things on credit, very often.
00:12:12	And, that is a contract
00:12:12	between the student
00:12:14	in the university
00:12:14	or community college,
00:12:17	and that is
00:12:17	that is two parties
00:12:19	agreeing for consideration.
00:12:21	It satisfies all of the
00:12:21	aspects of a legal contract.
00:12:25	Why do we why would we allow
00:12:25	a third party,
00:12:28	disinterested party,
00:12:28	in a sense, to come in
00:12:31	and interrupt that contract
00:12:31	from being fulfilled
00:12:35	just because they use it as a
00:12:35	as a pawn in negotiations
00:12:40	to get something
00:12:40	that they want,
00:12:42	whether it's different
00:12:42	working hours,
00:12:44	whether it's more vacation,
00:12:45	a better dental plan,
00:12:45	you know, all of those things.
00:12:48	They can negotiate
00:12:48	those things,
00:12:50	you know, on,
00:12:50	you know, in another manner,
00:12:52	with, management
00:12:52	of the universities
00:12:55	or community college.
00:12:56	There's no reason
00:12:57	to allow them
00:12:57	to use the student
00:12:59	delivery of instruction
00:13:01	as a pawn
00:13:01	in their negotiating process.
00:13:04	The bill does ban
00:13:04	certain things
00:13:05	from being negotiated,
00:13:05	like the post tenure review
00:13:08	and also retrenchment,
00:13:08	which is
00:13:10	kind of the the whittling
00:13:10	down of certain departments.
00:13:14	is important because
00:13:14	While retrenchment
00:13:16	in the changing environment
00:13:17	that we're seeing now
00:13:17	with workforce issues
00:13:20	that Representative
00:13:20	Young just talked about,
00:13:22	the needs of our hiring
00:13:22	communities,
00:13:25	businesses around
00:13:25	Ohio are changing.
00:13:28	It's impacting post-secondary
00:13:28	education tremendously.
00:13:32	And our universities
00:13:32	have to be able
00:13:34	to the presidents
00:13:34	and the boards
00:13:36	have to be able to deftly
00:13:36	and quickly
00:13:39	move through those changes
00:13:39	and make adjustments,
00:13:42	whether it's who they hire,
00:13:42	how many they hire,
00:13:45	what fields of study
00:13:45	they're focusing on.
00:13:47	So maybe they need
00:13:48	to make a decision soon
00:13:48	on having fewer philosophy,
00:13:52	professors
00:13:52	and have more computer science
00:13:55	professors, right.
00:13:56	Because their workforce
00:13:56	is demanding that, right now
00:13:59	for them to make those
00:13:59	changes, it's very cumbersome.
00:14:02	And the faculty
00:14:04	think that they can control
00:14:04	that and should,
00:14:06	and that's not going to work
00:14:06	in the future.
00:14:09	Let me ask you, representative
00:14:10	Young, about the workforce
00:14:10	issue and certain requirement
00:14:13	in this bill.
00:14:13	And again,
00:14:13	you have a companion bill
00:14:15	to this one
00:14:15	that's correct in the House.
00:14:17	This requirement of a civics
00:14:17	course on American history,
00:14:20	key foundational documents,
00:14:21	and the fundamentals
00:14:21	of free market capitalism.
00:14:24	That course
00:14:25	or that
00:14:25	those ideas are required
00:14:25	to be taught
00:14:27	in high schools right now.
00:14:29	But then this would add that
00:14:29	to the college curriculum.
00:14:31	Why should students pay extra
00:14:31	for those
00:14:35	pay part of their tuition
00:14:35	for those classes?
00:14:37	If that's not,
00:14:39	they don't feel that
00:14:39	that's part of their major
00:14:41	or they've already taken
00:14:41	care of that.
00:14:43	That's a good question.
00:14:44	But I before that,
00:14:44	I'd like to comment on the,
00:14:48	strike issue.
00:14:49	The intent
00:14:50	of Senator Serino and Chairman
00:14:50	Serino and myself in
00:14:56	our discussions was to make
00:14:59	the bill student focused.
00:15:02	Let's not forget about that.
00:15:04	I mean, we have students
00:15:04	and families who are sometimes
00:15:08	going into debt, many times
00:15:09	going into debt,
00:15:09	to be educated in Ohio
00:15:13	and that's
00:15:13	really important to interrupt.
00:15:16	That is repugnant.
00:15:18	I mean, it just doesn't work
00:15:21	on the issue of the
00:15:21	the requirements for classes.
00:15:24	We've accommodated,
00:15:24	those exceptions,
00:15:28	if they've if they,
00:15:31	if they have taken
00:15:31	these courses,
00:15:32	they can show
00:15:32	that they have already
00:15:35	and done that in high school
00:15:35	or in some class
00:15:38	when they entered through
00:15:38	college.
00:15:40	Credit plus or whatever.
00:15:41	We've made accommodations
00:15:41	for that in the bill.
00:15:44	But why are those classes
00:15:44	important
00:15:45	if you're studying,
00:15:46	you know, calculus
00:15:46	or engineering because of the
00:15:50	founding documents
00:15:50	and who we are.
00:15:52	And it's interesting,
00:15:52	if you go back
00:15:53	and look in history,
00:15:55	many of the people who wrote
00:15:55	those documents
00:15:58	were the same ages
00:15:58	as the protesters
00:16:00	that were protesting
00:16:00	today. Right.
00:16:03	If you go back and research
00:16:03	that it's very important
00:16:06	for people today to understand
00:16:06	where we came from
00:16:10	as a country,
00:16:10	how we became a republic,
00:16:13	and how meaningful that is,
00:16:13	because we make a commitment
00:16:18	every time we say
00:16:18	the Pledge of Allegiance
00:16:21	and sing the national
00:16:21	anthem to our country.
00:16:23	And they should
00:16:23	understand why.
00:16:26	Senator Serino
00:16:26	this bill requires a five year
00:16:27	cost summary
00:16:27	as part of the budget process
00:16:29	for the operating budget,
00:16:29	as well as the capital budget,
00:16:32	which those give hundreds
00:16:32	of millions of dollars
00:16:34	appropriate, hundreds
00:16:34	of millions of dollars
00:16:36	to colleges around the state.
00:16:38	You said
00:16:38	in the press conference
00:16:40	that if that lawmakers
00:16:40	have the power of the purse
00:16:44	to when it comes
00:16:45	to universities complying,
00:16:45	if the law passes,
00:16:48	does that mean
00:16:48	lawmakers can withhold money
00:16:51	from universities
00:16:51	if they don't like
00:16:53	what they're doing?
00:16:54	Well, we've
00:16:54	always had that authority
00:16:56	and we didn't need this bill.
00:16:57	It's in the bill
00:16:57	as a red flag.
00:17:00	Message to the universities
00:17:00	and community colleges
00:17:04	that reminding them
00:17:04	that we can and will
00:17:06	we will exercise
00:17:06	that appropriately.
00:17:09	So if they thumbed their
00:17:09	noses, which I don't expect,
00:17:12	but if they were to thumbed
00:17:13	their noses at us, and,
00:17:13	and not accept
00:17:17	the intent of the legislation
00:17:17	that we will ultimately pass,
00:17:20	you know,
00:17:21	we're not going to just
00:17:22	keep writing checks and, and,
00:17:22	you know, in, in,
00:17:26	in that not holding them
00:17:26	to what the requirements are.
00:17:30	You've said that the current
00:17:30	higher education
00:17:32	environment
00:17:32	has allowed virtually
00:17:33	every discipline
00:17:33	to become politicized.
00:17:36	I have to note that
00:17:36	most of the people
00:17:37	who've been appointed
00:17:37	to the five civic centers
00:17:40	that we talked about earlier
00:17:41	are considered conservative.
00:17:43	They're affiliated
00:17:43	with federal society
00:17:45	and other groups.
00:17:45	They've talked about woke
00:17:47	ideology,
00:17:47	criticized Democrats.
00:17:50	Is that fair? Well,
00:17:50	there's a balance.
00:17:52	I have looked at every single
00:17:52	one of the five, centers
00:17:56	and their appointments
00:17:56	or their boards,
00:17:58	and I'm tangentially engaged
00:17:58	in also discussions on
00:18:01	who the who the directors are
00:18:01	that get hired.
00:18:04	And so, you know, it's
00:18:04	just I think it's coincidental
00:18:09	that some of the folks
00:18:09	who are naturally attracted
00:18:12	to a center like this,
00:18:12	a civic center,
00:18:15	tend to be more conservative,
00:18:15	by by nature.
00:18:18	But we also have
00:18:18	we have not, stack the deck.
00:18:21	We have other people
00:18:22	who are not necessarily
00:18:22	considered,
00:18:24	you know, at the fire,
00:18:24	right of center, let's say,
00:18:27	because
00:18:27	we need to have some balance.
00:18:29	And we again,
00:18:30	we're talking about diversity
00:18:30	of thought here.
00:18:33	It would be ridiculous for us
00:18:33	not to represent diverse
00:18:36	thoughts on the boards
00:18:36	of these five centers.
00:18:39	Former Speaker
00:18:39	Jason Stevens said that
00:18:42	Senate Bill
00:18:43	83 did
00:18:43	not have the votes to pass,
00:18:45	and that's why
00:18:45	it didn't come to the floor.
00:18:47	Is there support
00:18:47	for passing this this time?
00:18:49	Our caucus is, very strongly
00:18:49	behind this bill,
00:18:53	and I honestly believe,
00:18:53	that had we brought,
00:18:57	83 to the floor,
00:18:57	it would have passed
00:19:00	without question.
00:19:00	Why didn't it then?
00:19:02	I'm not the speaker.
00:19:04	I wasn't the speaker.
00:19:05	If I were have been
00:19:05	the speaker
00:19:06	and have come to the floor,
00:19:06	I will I will add to that
00:19:09	if I if I had a I had an hour
00:19:09	long discussion with speaker,
00:19:13	former Speaker Stevens.
00:19:15	In a year ago in December.
00:19:17	And I went through
00:19:17	every aspect of the bill,
00:19:21	because I did
00:19:21	not know how familiar
00:19:21	he might have been with it.
00:19:25	I went through it.
00:19:26	He had a very positive
00:19:26	reaction to it.
00:19:28	He told reporters,
00:19:28	about an hour later that,
00:19:32	he thought it was a priority
00:19:32	bill.
00:19:34	I walked away feeling pretty
00:19:34	good about its prospects.
00:19:37	And then I don't know
00:19:37	what else happened,
00:19:39	but it certainly was
00:19:39	not a favored bill, anymore.
00:19:42	Not a priority.
00:19:43	And, I think there were
00:19:43	political factors involved.
00:19:46	But the bottom line is,
00:19:46	he apparently, for whatever
00:19:49	reason, did not see
00:19:49	the importance of this
00:19:51	in both higher education
00:19:51	and workforce.
00:19:54	And it's a shame
00:19:54	that he didn't see it.
00:19:57	And you won't have that
00:19:58	situation this time around,
00:19:58	because Speaker Matt Hoffman
00:20:00	and Senate
00:20:00	President Rob McCauley
00:20:02	both were supportive
00:20:02	of Senate bill.
00:20:04	Absolutely.
00:20:05	You had said before
00:20:06	that there would not be
00:20:07	any compromises on this bill
00:20:07	if they if Senate Bill 83
00:20:11	didn't get through
00:20:11	with the compromises it had.
00:20:13	You would not be compromising
00:20:13	this time.
00:20:15	Is there any area on which
00:20:15	you are willing to compromise,
00:20:18	or do you feel that there's
00:20:18	going to be a need for that?
00:20:20	Well,
00:20:20	as we go through
00:20:20	the hearing process
00:20:22	in both the Senate
00:20:22	and the House,
00:20:23	we may find that there were
00:20:23	some unintended consequences.
00:20:26	It happens
00:20:26	all the time in bills.
00:20:28	And and we will fix those.
00:20:30	There's
00:20:30	sometimes even very simple
00:20:31	technical changes, things
00:20:31	that we missed, etc..
00:20:35	Or something that's
00:20:35	that is goes against existing
00:20:38	revised code.
00:20:39	We'll take care of those.
00:20:39	That's the normal process.
00:20:42	But if your question is,
00:20:43	are there any of the major
00:20:43	components here
00:20:45	that we are willing
00:20:45	to take off the table?
00:20:47	The answer from
00:20:47	my perspective is no.
00:20:50	This bill has gone through,
00:20:50	a hardening
00:20:53	process, lots of debate,
00:20:53	lots of testimony.
00:20:56	And we now know what
00:20:56	we need to pass.
00:20:59	And this is it.
00:21:01	You're likely
00:21:01	to get a lot of opposition
00:21:02	from labor in Ohio,
00:21:02	which, of course, came out
00:21:05	many years ago
00:21:05	to oppose Senate Bill five
00:21:07	and its reforms or changes
00:21:07	on collective bargaining.
00:21:11	Are you expecting that
00:21:12	kind of pushback from unions
00:21:12	and all unions
00:21:15	across the board,
00:21:15	not just faculty unions?
00:21:16	Well,
00:21:17	I think
00:21:17	the most of the protesting
00:21:18	will come from faculty unions,
00:21:18	of course.
00:21:21	And again, they they're not
00:21:21	ready to embrace change.
00:21:24	They they want to operate
00:21:25	the way they've been operating
00:21:25	for decades
00:21:27	in higher education.
00:21:29	I understand
00:21:31	change is not something
00:21:31	that we all embrace easily,
00:21:34	but they better
00:21:34	figure out how to adapt.
00:21:36	making one major change.
00:21:36	And they need to start
00:21:39	And that is,
00:21:39	they should think of
00:21:40	their students as customers.
00:21:43	And when they
00:21:44	start to think that,
00:21:44	their perspective will change.
00:21:47	And finally,
00:21:47	I want to ask you both,
00:21:49	Senate Bill 83, what it came
00:21:49	through last time around.
00:21:51	The opponents called it
00:21:51	the higher education
00:21:54	destruction bill.
00:21:55	And they called it
00:21:56	a conservative snowflake bill,
00:21:56	have pointed to that.
00:22:01	It could potentially
00:22:02	involve cancel culture
00:22:02	by conservatives
00:22:05	who complain about cow
00:22:05	cancel culture.
00:22:06	So let me ask you both.
00:22:08	What do you say to people
00:22:08	who hold that opinion on this?
00:22:11	When you have open, fair
00:22:11	discussion
00:22:15	and it's really interesting,
00:22:16	over the last week,
00:22:16	there's been some exchange,
00:22:19	in the house of,
00:22:19	of, of, editorial comments
00:22:25	and then comments from House
00:22:25	members about 83 or SB one.
00:22:31	And, it's really interesting.
00:22:34	I thought about
00:22:34	commenting on it,
00:22:36	but I didn't because
00:22:36	the debate back and forth
00:22:40	was hearty, intense,
00:22:40	and they disagreed.
00:22:44	And I walked away and went,
00:22:46	that's exactly
00:22:46	what we're trying to do here,
00:22:49	to have that emotion,
00:22:49	that passion, that discussion.
00:22:53	And, it just happened
00:22:53	right before my eyes.
00:22:56	What about discussion that
00:22:56	involves denying the Holocaust
00:22:59	and some of these things
00:22:59	that are factually untrue,
00:23:02	but yet people still find ways
00:23:02	to debate them.
00:23:06	Well, look, we've had debate
00:23:06	on our campuses, forever,
00:23:09	you know, evolution,
00:23:09	the theory of evolution
00:23:12	has been debated
00:23:12	and continues to be debated.
00:23:15	And it's I,
00:23:15	I'm a fan of watching
00:23:18	some of these debates
00:23:18	on that subject.
00:23:20	And, you know, I think it's,
00:23:20	I think it's great.
00:23:22	It causes you to think
00:23:22	and analyze,
00:23:24	come to your own conclusions.
00:23:26	That's
00:23:26	what we're talking about here.
00:23:27	If, if a student brings up
00:23:27	a ridiculous concept
00:23:30	that they happen
00:23:30	to believe in.
00:23:32	Look,
00:23:32	it won't be the first time
00:23:34	a professor has heard
00:23:34	something like that.
00:23:36	There's a professional way
00:23:36	to deal with it
00:23:38	without obstruction.
00:23:39	They're right
00:23:39	to express themselves,
00:23:41	even if it's a dumb idea
00:23:41	or a dumb concept.
00:23:44	What if it's wrong, though?
00:23:45	I mean, colleges
00:23:45	are there to teach you
00:23:47	what is factually correct.
00:23:49	Colleges
00:23:49	are there to teach students
00:23:49	to arrive at the truth.
00:23:53	They should be teaching them
00:23:53	how to seek the truth,
00:23:56	how to analyze
00:23:57	all of the various inputs
00:23:57	and the facts
00:23:59	and to come to their own
00:23:59	conclusion, teaching them
00:24:02	about a specific concept
00:24:02	that you must believe in.
00:24:06	That becomes indoctrination,
00:24:08	and that is not what
00:24:08	our campuses should be doing.
00:24:10	representative Young's
00:24:12	bill has been introduced
00:24:12	in the House,
00:24:13	but has not been assigned
00:24:13	a number.
00:24:15	32 bills have been assigned
00:24:15	numbers so far in the Senate,
00:24:19	including an energy bill
00:24:19	proposal to lower the income
00:24:22	tax rate to a flat 2.75%,
00:24:22	and two property tax bills.
00:24:26	A circuit breaker
00:24:26	for a refundable
00:24:28	income tax credit or rebate
00:24:28	when property taxes
00:24:31	or rent exceed
00:24:31	5% of a person's income,
00:24:34	and a tax on high volume
00:24:34	landlords.
00:24:37	There's also a bill
00:24:37	requiring retailers
00:24:37	to allow cash transactions
00:24:41	and a ban on tanning beds
00:24:41	for minors under 16 years old.
00:24:45	And that is it for this week
00:24:45	for my colleagues
00:24:47	at the Statehouse News
00:24:47	Bureau of Ohio Public Media.
00:24:49	Thanks for watching.
00:24:50	Please check out our website
00:24:50	at State News Talk
00:24:52	or find us online by searching
00:24:52	State of Ohio Show.
00:24:55	You can also hear more
00:24:55	from the Bureau
00:24:57	on our podcast,
00:24:57	The Ohio State House scoop.
00:25:00	Look forward
00:25:00	every Monday morning
00:25:01	wherever
00:25:01	you get your podcasts.
00:25:03	Thanks for watching and please
00:25:03	join us again
00:25:04	next time
00:25:04	for the State of Ohio. You.
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Note : Transcripts are compiled from uncorrected captions