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The State of Ohio

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Springfield is once again in the national spotlight as it makes an appearance in the VP debate. Ohio's abortion rate went up last year. And a central Ohio school district shuts down a Bible study program during the school day - but discussion over the idea goes on. Interview guests are Zachary Parrish and Molly Gaines of Parents Against LifeWise, and Rep. Gary Click (R-Vickery).

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00:00:38	Springfield, once again
00:00:40	in the national spotlight
00:00:40	as the city
00:00:42	makes an appearance
00:00:42	in the VP debate.
00:00:44	Ohio's abortion
00:00:44	rate went up last year,
00:00:47	and a Central Ohio school
00:00:47	district shuts down
00:00:49	a Bible study program
00:00:49	during the school day.
00:00:51	But the discussion over
00:00:51	the idea goes on.
00:00:54	That's this
00:00:54	weekend. The state of Ohio?
00:01:14	Welcome to the state of Ohio.
00:01:16	I'm Karen Kasler.
00:01:17	Once again,
00:01:17	the city of Springfield
00:01:19	was a topic of discussion
00:01:19	in a major debate
00:01:22	as Ohio's freshman
00:01:22	Republican US Senator JD Vance
00:01:25	met Minnesota
00:01:25	Governor Tim Walz for the vice
00:01:28	presidential matchup
00:01:28	this week.
00:01:30	Most of the debate was civil
00:01:30	without any of the explosive
00:01:33	elements
00:01:33	of the presidential debate
00:01:35	between Vice
00:01:35	President Kamala Harris
00:01:37	and former President
00:01:37	Donald Trump last month.
00:01:40	But in a discussion
00:01:41	about immigration, Trump's
00:01:41	proposal for mass deportations
00:01:44	and Harris's plan to implement
00:01:44	new border restrictions,
00:01:47	Walz referenced an interview
00:01:47	Vance had done on CNN
00:01:51	where he'd been asked about
00:01:51	the false and racist rumors
00:01:54	he had shared about Haitian
00:01:54	immigrants in Springfield.
00:01:57	And Senator Vance,
00:01:57	and it surprises me on this.
00:02:00	Talking about and saying
00:02:01	I will create stories
00:02:01	to bring attention to this
00:02:04	that vilified
00:02:05	a large number of people
00:02:05	who were here
00:02:06	legally in the community
00:02:06	of Springfield.
00:02:09	The Republican governor
00:02:09	said, it's not true.
00:02:12	Don't do it.
00:02:13	And he's very worried
00:02:15	about the things that I said
00:02:15	in Springfield.
00:02:17	Look, in Springfield,
00:02:18	Ohio, and in communities
00:02:18	all across this country.
00:02:21	You've got schools
00:02:21	that are overwhelmed.
00:02:23	You've got hospitals
00:02:23	that are overwhelmed.
00:02:25	You've got housing
00:02:25	that is totally unaffordable
00:02:28	because we brought in millions
00:02:28	of illegal immigrants
00:02:31	to compete with Americans
00:02:31	for scarce homes.
00:02:34	One of the moderators
00:02:34	clarified that most of those
00:02:36	Haitian immigrants
00:02:37	to Springfield
00:02:37	are in the country
00:02:39	legally under temporary
00:02:39	protected status.
00:02:41	Vance protested the fact check
00:02:44	as that was not in the agreed
00:02:44	upon rules.
00:02:47	There were more abortions
00:02:47	in Ohio in 2023.
00:02:49	Over the previous year,
00:02:51	there were 22,000 abortions
00:02:51	in Ohio last year, around
00:02:54	3500, or 19%
00:02:54	more than in 2022.
00:02:58	Nearly half of abortion
00:02:58	patients were black women.
00:03:01	87% of abortions were
00:03:01	performed at 12 weeks or less,
00:03:05	with about two thirds of all
00:03:05	abortions before nine weeks.
00:03:09	Less than 3% of abortions
00:03:09	involve patients under 18,
00:03:13	and 71 of the 22,000 abortions
00:03:13	performed
00:03:16	involve girls
00:03:16	less than 15 years old.
00:03:19	Anti-abortion advocates note
00:03:20	an 80% increase
00:03:20	in out-of-state patients.
00:03:23	Ohio Right to Life
00:03:23	said, quote,
00:03:25	Ohio is becoming
00:03:26	a destination state
00:03:26	for abortion and, quote,
00:03:29	pro-choice advocates
00:03:29	note that 2022 number included
00:03:33	a three month period
00:03:34	where a ban on abortions
00:03:34	after six weeks was in effect.
00:03:38	The Westerville
00:03:38	City Schools in central
00:03:40	Ohio has become the sixth
00:03:40	district to end release time
00:03:44	education or try an action
00:03:44	that shuts down the Life.
00:03:48	Y's Academy
00:03:48	Christian education program.
00:03:51	Monday's meeting
00:03:51	drew an overflow crowd
00:03:53	and went on
00:03:53	for more than two hours,
00:03:55	with both supporters
00:03:56	and opponents of life
00:03:56	wise speaking out.
00:03:59	The board
00:03:59	voted to end the policy
00:04:00	because of concerns
00:04:01	about the impact of kids
00:04:01	leaving school during the day
00:04:04	and the stress on the district
00:04:06	to support multiple
00:04:06	religious education programs.
00:04:10	Five other districts in Ohio
00:04:10	have rescinded policies
00:04:12	that allow students
00:04:12	to leave during the school day
00:04:14	for religious instruction,
00:04:16	and life wise was at the
00:04:16	center of those discussions.
00:04:19	It is a privately funded
00:04:19	program based in Hilliard,
00:04:22	and has enrolled
00:04:22	30,000 students in 12 states
00:04:22	since it started in 2019.
00:04:27	The Bible centered
00:04:28	Learning program
00:04:28	is free for districts and kids
00:04:31	who are taken by busses
00:04:31	to classes off school.
00:04:33	Property lifeways features
00:04:33	a sample of its curriculum
00:04:37	on its website.
00:04:38	Life wise is suing Zachary
00:04:39	Parish of Fort Wayne, Indiana,
00:04:39	for copyright infringement
00:04:43	for publishing
00:04:43	the full curriculum
00:04:44	after accessing it
00:04:44	on the LifeWay site.
00:04:47	Parish is one of the founders
00:04:47	of Parents Against Life Wise,
00:04:50	and the father of
00:04:50	an elementary school student
00:04:52	whose school participates
00:04:52	in the Life program.
00:04:55	I talked to him
00:04:55	and another member
00:04:56	of the group, Molly Gaines, in
00:04:56	July.
00:04:59	was just looking
00:04:59	and investigating.
00:05:01	I mean, really, yeah,
00:05:01	it wasn't it
00:05:02	with the intent to go
00:05:02	look at the curriculum?
00:05:04	No, but it was just
00:05:04	with the intent
00:05:05	to see what it was about, to
00:05:05	look at the background checks,
00:05:08	to look at the training,
00:05:08	to look at the certification.
00:05:11	I definitely had no intent
00:05:11	of being a volunteer.
00:05:13	I was just trying to gather
00:05:13	information
00:05:15	and I got into the curriculum,
00:05:15	but that was not my intent
00:05:18	of what I was looking for
00:05:18	specifically.
00:05:21	And now, Molly,
00:05:21	you met up with Zachary,
00:05:23	through the internet,
00:05:23	essentially that, there were
00:05:26	these posts out there about
00:05:26	what was going on life wise.
00:05:30	So you are also concerned
00:05:30	about what life
00:05:33	wise has been teaching kids,
00:05:33	essentially?
00:05:36	Yeah, absolutely.
00:05:37	You know, from what
00:05:37	we've heard,
00:05:39	they're touting themselves
00:05:39	as non-denominational.
00:05:42	They're making themselves
00:05:42	seem to be very innocent,
00:05:44	like, your Bible school
00:05:44	from the past,
00:05:47	you know, that our
00:05:47	grandparents would have talked
00:05:49	about singing songs,
00:05:49	coloring this sort of thing.
00:05:52	And the further we dig,
00:05:53	the more we find out,
00:05:53	and the more it becomes
00:05:56	apparent that that is not
00:05:56	what it's occurring.
00:05:58	They're very in-depth.
00:06:00	Curriculums
00:06:00	for elementary school
00:06:02	kids, stuff
00:06:02	that's dealing with, like,
00:06:04	Sodom and Gomorrah,
00:06:04	the story of Ruth.
00:06:07	Just some things that are
00:06:07	they they require a nuanced,
00:06:12	you know, talk when you're
00:06:12	dealing with young children
00:06:15	for these types of lessons.
00:06:17	And these teachers
00:06:17	don't have any certifications.
00:06:19	They're not required to.
00:06:20	in and of its own.
00:06:20	So that's, that's concerning
00:06:23	And then I,
00:06:24	you know, like you said,
00:06:25	the further we got into it,
00:06:25	the more we discovered
00:06:27	and they're not doing
00:06:27	background checks.
00:06:29	It's basically
00:06:29	a consumer report.
00:06:31	You know, they can tell you
00:06:31	that they're
00:06:32	doing a background check.
00:06:34	But that there's
00:06:34	so many different kinds
00:06:36	of background checks
00:06:36	that you need
00:06:37	to really find out what it is
00:06:37	that they're doing.
00:06:40	And we found out
00:06:40	that they were
00:06:41	at the time using a company
00:06:41	called Protect My Ministry.
00:06:45	And that is where Zach would
00:06:45	have put his information.
00:06:48	And just as though he was
00:06:48	wanting to be a volunteer.
00:06:51	And he did submit
00:06:51	all of his real information.
00:06:54	Zach has, a bit of a past
00:06:54	from being younger.
00:06:56	Nothing serious.
00:06:58	Drugs and alcohol,
00:06:58	that sort of thing.
00:06:59	But he would not have been
00:06:59	given
00:07:00	an Ohio teaching license ever.
00:07:03	Currently at this state
00:07:03	in time in his life.
00:07:05	If he wanted to,
00:07:05	he would not be given one.
00:07:07	And life was passed him
00:07:08	through immediately,
00:07:08	gave him access
00:07:10	to all the training materials,
00:07:10	gave him a certificate.
00:07:12	He could go right now
00:07:12	and buy a LifeWay shirt.
00:07:15	Well, anyone can do that.
00:07:16	I haven't take the training
00:07:16	and I have a life white shirt.
00:07:18	So. But he could go
00:07:18	and do that
00:07:21	and walk up to a school
00:07:21	and essentially pass
00:07:23	himself off as being someone
00:07:24	who is affiliated
00:07:24	and works with life wise.
00:07:26	What did you find when you got
00:07:26	into the curriculum?
00:07:29	Because, again,
00:07:31	the curriculum is not posted
00:07:31	on the Life Wise website.
00:07:34	It's just a sample curriculum.
00:07:36	What did you find out
00:07:38	and what did you do with
00:07:38	that when you found it out?
00:07:41	Oh, well, I mean,
00:07:42	it's kind of the typical thing
00:07:42	that you would think it is.
00:07:45	It's, you know, marriages
00:07:45	between a man and a woman
00:07:47	that's referenced in there
00:07:47	a couple times.
00:07:49	It's just that kind of stuff.
00:07:51	And like Molly was saying,
00:07:51	it's just
00:07:52	these nuanced topics,
00:07:54	you know,
00:07:54	they're talking about suicide
00:07:55	and some lessons
00:07:55	and things like that.
00:07:58	Purity culture.
00:07:59	You see all of that stuff
00:07:59	when you look in the lessons
00:08:01	and I posted online
00:08:01	on my website that we made
00:08:04	Parents Against
00:08:04	Life was not online
00:08:07	because I believe parents
00:08:07	have the right to see that.
00:08:09	I believe they should be able
00:08:09	to review that.
00:08:11	If if this organization
00:08:13	is coming
00:08:13	into our public schools
00:08:15	and asking us
00:08:16	to sign over the custody from
00:08:16	the public schools to them,
00:08:20	they should be providing
00:08:20	the curriculum to us
00:08:22	to review or the schools
00:08:22	or the churches or anybody.
00:08:25	I'm not a lawyer.
00:08:26	I've been talking to lawyers.
00:08:27	They say I have a pretty good
00:08:28	defense for fair
00:08:28	use of a couple other things
00:08:31	to the lawyers I've talked to
00:08:32	are very confident
00:08:32	they can get a dismissal,
00:08:34	if not a whole defense
00:08:34	against this.
00:08:36	So we'll see what happens.
00:08:38	I'm not going to I'm
00:08:38	not going to settle.
00:08:40	So if they want to fight
00:08:41	and they want to drag
00:08:41	this out, I will too.
00:08:44	And it wasn't me that took
00:08:44	the material down voluntarily.
00:08:46	It was
00:08:46	taken down by the website. So
00:08:50	Molly up to me.
00:08:51	It would still be up.
00:08:53	Molly.
00:08:54	These kind of release
00:08:54	time programs
00:08:56	for religious instruction
00:08:57	are legal, have been legal
00:08:57	since 1952 with the U.S.
00:09:00	Supreme Court.
00:09:01	So what lifeways is doing
00:09:02	is legal,
00:09:02	They're exploiting that wall
00:09:06	that was meant for minority
00:09:06	children.
00:09:08	That was initially meant,
00:09:10	we need to discuss this to
00:09:10	for people
00:09:12	that couldn't afford
00:09:12	private religious education,
00:09:15	you know,
00:09:15	so this would have been
00:09:15	a public school child
00:09:16	who was maybe needed
00:09:16	to get that education
00:09:19	to get their their bar
00:09:19	mitzvah done.
00:09:21	They would go and they would
00:09:21	do this, you know what I mean?
00:09:23	And they wouldn't have to go
00:09:23	to a private Jewish school
00:09:25	to do so. They could still go
00:09:25	to their public school.
00:09:28	And that was what
00:09:28	it was originally meant for.
00:09:29	And they are using it,
00:09:32	for their own advantage
00:09:32	and to the disadvantage
00:09:34	of everyone else.
00:09:36	This is not the only,
00:09:36	Ohio is where we are,
00:09:39	but it's not the only state
00:09:39	that they're affecting.
00:09:41	They've already went through
00:09:41	and lobbied
00:09:43	life places, lobbied
00:09:43	for Indiana to pass hate.
00:09:46	House Bill 1137.
00:09:48	It's passed.
00:09:49	They went in and lobbied
00:09:49	for Jill Pence spoke
00:09:52	and lobbied for Oklahoma
00:09:52	House Bill 1425.
00:09:55	It passed.
00:09:56	So Indiana passed in March.
00:09:58	Oklahoma passed in May.
00:10:00	In Ohio, they have HB 445.
00:10:03	And, that's in process
00:10:03	right now.
00:10:05	We have not yet been able
00:10:05	to voice our opposition.
00:10:07	We're waiting for that moment
00:10:07	for that.
00:10:09	She has to do so.
00:10:11	But that would change
00:10:11	one word in the Ohio law
00:10:14	from May to Shiloh.
00:10:16	And right now,
00:10:16	the only way
00:10:16	that a school board
00:10:18	or a school district can keep
00:10:20	lifeways out is to not have
00:10:20	an arbitrary policy.
00:10:23	The only reason a school
00:10:23	would have in our tri policy,
00:10:25	traditionally,
00:10:25	would be that we, as a family
00:10:27	or a student
00:10:27	would come to them and say,
00:10:29	I need this
00:10:29	for my religious faith,
00:10:33	my learning,
00:10:33	my schooling, this,
00:10:33	and they would give them
00:10:35	where they're going,
00:10:35	etc., etc..
00:10:37	You know, but that's that's
00:10:37	not what's happening here.
00:10:40	And you know, for an MPO,
00:10:42	we're having a lot of trouble
00:10:43	understanding
00:10:43	how he's allowed to go on
00:10:45	and lobby and speak so much
00:10:45	and push so much
00:10:48	and be involved
00:10:48	in so much of our politics
00:10:50	and our state laws.
00:10:52	This is not MPO, this is not
00:10:52	how MPOs are supposed to,
00:10:55	you know, conduct themselves.
00:10:56	So that's a lot of
00:10:56	concern too.
00:10:58	I want to ask exactly
00:10:59	one more question about the,
00:11:01	response to the lawsuit
00:11:01	from likewise.
00:11:03	It has said
00:11:05	that your primary goal
00:11:05	is to damage its reputation
00:11:07	and galvanize parents
00:11:07	to oppose Lifeways
00:11:09	Academy chapters
00:11:09	in their communities.
00:11:11	Is that what you're
00:11:11	trying to do, or are you
00:11:15	just showing parents
00:11:15	what is out there?
00:11:17	Well, I, I guess it's both,
00:11:17	to be honest with you.
00:11:20	I mean, the parents
00:11:20	need to see this stuff,
00:11:22	but people need to be aware.
00:11:24	I'm not I'm not galvanizing
00:11:24	them.
00:11:26	I'm showing them what's there.
00:11:27	They're making their own
00:11:27	decisions and opinions.
00:11:30	The whole thing was, life
00:11:30	wise, has been doing this
00:11:33	behind closed doors.
00:11:34	They've been targeting
00:11:34	these rural communities
00:11:36	where they get no pushback.
00:11:38	They talk to the school boards
00:11:38	behind closed doors.
00:11:40	They send emails
00:11:40	directly to them.
00:11:42	They are so intermingled
00:11:42	with our schools.
00:11:45	And by the time anybody in
00:11:46	the community knows about it,
00:11:46	it's too late.
00:11:48	They're already already right.
00:11:50	They're already enrolling
00:11:50	children by that point.
00:11:52	And all the parents
00:11:52	are shocked
00:11:54	and they don't know
00:11:54	what to do.
00:11:55	And they're told
00:11:55	by their administrators
00:11:56	and their superintendents,
00:11:56	our hands are tied
00:12:00	lives.
00:12:01	The doors,
00:12:01	the fire City schools
00:12:03	is where I started with this.
00:12:04	And I brought the Freedom
00:12:04	from Religion Foundation,
00:12:07	and they sent a letter
00:12:07	to them.
00:12:08	And the school's lawyers
00:12:08	basically called me a liar.
00:12:10	So it's
00:12:10	definitely personal for me.
00:12:12	I had all the receipts.
00:12:13	There was a lawsuit
00:12:13	to be made at defiance,
00:12:16	and they didn't do it.
00:12:17	So it definitely
00:12:17	during personal for me.
00:12:19	They're So, you know,
00:12:19	so providing them a platform,
00:12:23	giving them a ton of money,
00:12:25	encouraging their supporters
00:12:25	to donate to life wise.
00:12:29	These are all things
00:12:29	that are giving them
00:12:30	just more power, more purpose,
00:12:30	more power
00:12:32	to sort of drown out
00:12:32	the parents and the schools
00:12:36	that are saying,
00:12:36	no, this is awful.
00:12:38	You're saying
00:12:38	that it's good in practice.
00:12:41	You're touting these paid
00:12:41	for studies.
00:12:43	Your you know, you're blowing
00:12:43	smoke and on the ground.
00:12:47	In reality,
00:12:48	what we're seeing
00:12:48	is more bullying,
00:12:50	the othering of other
00:12:50	children.
00:12:52	You're going to go to hell,
00:12:52	your family's going to hell.
00:12:55	Little Jewish and Hindu kids
00:12:55	going home and crying at night
00:12:58	because they don't understand
00:12:59	why they can't go to the party
00:12:59	on the big red bus.
00:13:02	These are first graders,
00:13:04	you know, and those parents
00:13:04	are then having to explain
00:13:07	at home to them something that
00:13:07	they should never have to
00:13:11	at that time in their life.
00:13:14	I know the folks
00:13:14	who are supporting
00:13:15	life wise and House Bill 445
00:13:19	I said, this is,
00:13:19	you know, parents have a right
00:13:21	to be involved
00:13:21	in their child's education.
00:13:23	So I just want to close,
00:13:23	Zach,
00:13:25	don't
00:13:25	parents have a right to say
00:13:27	I want my kid to be able
00:13:27	to attend a
00:13:30	religious instruction
00:13:30	during the day?
00:13:32	Absolutely.
00:13:33	This isn't about shutting down
00:13:33	religious instruction.
00:13:35	That's not what this is about
00:13:35	at all.
00:13:37	It's about
00:13:37	they should be maintaining
00:13:39	the same standards
00:13:39	and same transparency
00:13:39	as everybody else.
00:13:42	They shouldn't
00:13:42	be disrupting the school day.
00:13:44	They shouldn't be taking away
00:13:44	from Art and Jim as a whole.
00:13:48	If parents want to choose
00:13:48	to take their kids
00:13:50	out of a class, that's fine.
00:13:51	But they are coming in
00:13:51	and having schools
00:13:53	schedule to accommodate them.
00:13:53	rearrange the
00:13:57	You know, I think it's it's
00:14:02	I think it's awful.
00:14:03	I'm going to be honest
00:14:03	with you.
00:14:04	Do the parents
00:14:04	have a right? Yes.
00:14:06	What about our rights? I'm
00:14:06	a parent.
00:14:08	Zach is a parent.
00:14:09	There's hundreds of parents
00:14:09	that have talked to us
00:14:12	that have provided
00:14:12	their testimony
00:14:14	about their lives
00:14:14	and how it's affected them
00:14:16	and their children
00:14:16	and the crying and the trauma.
00:14:18	What about our rights
00:14:18	in our country?
00:14:21	We have come so far
00:14:21	since 1952.
00:14:24	There's vouchers.
00:14:25	There are so many things
00:14:25	that you can do
00:14:27	to provide your child
00:14:27	with a religious education.
00:14:29	That is not going to encroach
00:14:30	on my child's
00:14:30	public school day.
00:14:33	There shouldn't be any peer
00:14:33	pressure.
00:14:35	There shouldn't be
00:14:36	you having to go to school
00:14:37	and worry
00:14:38	about not fitting in,
00:14:38	because you don't go
00:14:39	to a religious club
00:14:39	that the other kids go to.
00:14:42	In a lot of cases, that's
00:14:43	because your parents
00:14:43	won't allow you to.
00:14:45	What kind of
00:14:45	what kind of situation
00:14:47	are we
00:14:47	setting up in our elementary
00:14:47	schools for these kids?
00:14:49	They're already dealing
00:14:49	with racial, racial divide
00:14:52	and political divide
00:14:52	from their families.
00:14:55	And, you know, everything
00:14:55	else.
00:14:57	And we're going to add
00:14:57	this into,
00:14:59	you know,
00:14:59	it used to be that we didn't
00:15:00	discuss this sort of stuff,
00:15:02	you know, and this is why
00:15:02	it's supposed to be separate.
00:15:05	parents against life.
00:15:06	Wise said it's
00:15:06	seeing some districts
00:15:07	classifying all classes
00:15:07	as core curriculum
00:15:10	to prevent students
00:15:11	from leaving in any period
00:15:11	other than recess or lunch.
00:15:15	But Life Wise
00:15:15	has influential backers,
00:15:17	including Representative
00:15:17	Gary Klick,
00:15:19	who says Parents Against Life
00:15:19	wise is actually,
00:15:21	in his words, bullies
00:15:21	against parents.
00:15:24	He's a sponsor of the bill
00:15:24	to require schools
00:15:26	to allow release
00:15:26	time for religious instruction
00:15:29	and he's a pastor in
00:15:29	his district in western Ohio.
00:15:33	So the change from May
00:15:33	to shall make sure
00:15:37	we ensure the parent's rights
00:15:38	to make choices
00:15:38	for their children.
00:15:40	So it says that the school
00:15:40	shall have a policy
00:15:43	and does not dictate
00:15:43	what the policy is.
00:15:46	But it says that you should
00:15:47	have a policy
00:15:48	for most schools, it's
00:15:48	not going to be to change.
00:15:50	75% of schools in Ohio
00:15:50	have a policy.
00:15:53	There's just a few schools
00:15:53	who, for whatever
00:15:56	their reasons are,
00:15:58	are refusing
00:15:58	to allow parents
00:15:58	to have their rights
00:16:00	to direct their children's
00:16:00	religious education.
00:16:03	And so we just want
00:16:03	to make sure
00:16:04	that parents are entitled to
00:16:06	make the choices
00:16:06	for their children.
00:16:09	So it does require that
00:16:09	students are released to go to
00:16:12	religious instruction.
00:16:13	Yes, it requires
00:16:13	that they have a policy,
00:16:16	regarding that, it doesn't say
00:16:16	what the policy is, because
00:16:21	it leaves a broad parameter
00:16:21	of choices for the schools
00:16:25	because we want it to work,
00:16:25	everywhere and every school's
00:16:28	not the same.
00:16:29	Every situation
00:16:29	is not the same.
00:16:31	All circumstances
00:16:31	are not the same.
00:16:33	But we just want to make sure
00:16:35	that parents and children
00:16:35	have the rights.
00:16:37	Now it seems like it's
00:16:37	I know it's
00:16:39	been in existence before,
00:16:39	but life wise, obviously,
00:16:43	and it's the number
00:16:43	of students
00:16:45	who have signed up for
00:16:45	that has kind of pushed
00:16:46	this forward a little bit.
00:16:47	Why shouldn't these
00:16:47	release programs be targeted
00:16:51	at things that are before
00:16:51	or after school programs?
00:16:54	Why release
00:16:54	kids during a school day
00:16:57	when there's so many things
00:16:57	teachers need to be teaching
00:16:59	and so little time to do it?
00:17:01	Well, that's
00:17:01	a very good question, Karen.
00:17:03	So there's two parts.
00:17:04	And first of all,
00:17:04	the reason is
00:17:07	because some kids are left out
00:17:09	because
00:17:09	maybe they ride the bus
00:17:11	and they don't
00:17:11	have transportation.
00:17:13	And if it's
00:17:14	before or after school,
00:17:14	those those kids are
00:17:16	eliminated from the process
00:17:16	and that opportunity.
00:17:19	So this ensures that
00:17:19	they have the time to do it.
00:17:21	And it works in every school.
00:17:23	They cannot miss core
00:17:23	curriculum or court classes.
00:17:26	The amount of time needed
00:17:26	is not a huge amount of time.
00:17:29	And many schools
00:17:29	make it work by,
00:17:32	you know,
00:17:32	using lunch in recess.
00:17:34	So not only are
00:17:34	they not missing core classes,
00:17:36	they're not missing
00:17:36	any classes,
00:17:38	and the kids
00:17:38	have a great time.
00:17:40	And then there's actually been
00:17:40	studies done that
00:17:43	report that actual school
00:17:43	attendance increases.
00:17:46	We find that in school
00:17:46	discipline, in school
00:17:50	suspensions are decreased.
00:17:52	Out of school
00:17:52	suspensions are decreased.
00:17:54	It has a very positive effect
00:17:56	on, behavior of the students.
00:17:59	It helps the students
00:17:59	self-image
00:18:00	and their self-worth.
00:18:01	It's just really a net win win
00:18:03	all the way around,
00:18:03	and it does not interfere.
00:18:06	So many administrators
00:18:06	and many school
00:18:08	teachers have implemented
00:18:08	this and used this,
00:18:12	without any incident
00:18:12	or any problem.
00:18:14	But,
00:18:14	there are people out there
00:18:16	who really, I think
00:18:16	just for a minute reasons,
00:18:18	they keep creating
00:18:18	all these boogeymen and say,
00:18:21	well, this will happen
00:18:21	and that will happen.
00:18:23	But really, that's never been
00:18:23	proven to be the case.
00:18:27	The things that you're citing
00:18:27	there are those studies
00:18:29	specifically on the life wise
00:18:29	didn't does those statistics
00:18:34	and those things come from
00:18:34	life wise itself,
00:18:35	or are these
00:18:35	all sorts of release programs
00:18:38	that have been in existence
00:18:38	for a while?
00:18:40	Well, life
00:18:40	wise commissioned the study.
00:18:42	And so it
00:18:42	does this very specifically,
00:18:45	I believe, with life wise,
00:18:46	but they're really the largest
00:18:46	players in the field.
00:18:48	You know,
00:18:49	they saw that this was,
00:18:49	something that was available.
00:18:52	They just started
00:18:52	on a small scale
00:18:54	and they said, well,
00:18:55	maybe we can be in 25 schools
00:18:55	by 2025.
00:18:58	And I think, you know,
00:18:58	they're already and three
00:19:00	that aim somewhere
00:19:00	between 3 and 500 schools.
00:19:03	And that doesn't happen unless
00:19:03	you're doing things right.
00:19:06	They are very successful.
00:19:08	Schools have found that
00:19:08	it's done very efficiently.
00:19:12	The teachers are well trained,
00:19:12	well prepared.
00:19:15	They have an efficient system
00:19:17	to get the kids
00:19:17	where they're going
00:19:18	to get them back
00:19:18	to cause a minimal amount
00:19:20	of interference
00:19:20	in the schools.
00:19:22	If they weren't
00:19:22	doing their job
00:19:24	right, it wouldn't be popular.
00:19:26	Now, wife wise is suing a
00:19:29	Indiana man who got a hold
00:19:29	of the curriculum
00:19:33	and published it
00:19:33	on his website.
00:19:36	He's take it's been taken down
00:19:36	now, but I want to ask you
00:19:40	the wife on his website lists
00:19:40	sample curriculum,
00:19:43	but you can't access
00:19:43	the full curriculum.
00:19:45	Now, the Ohio
00:19:45	Department of Education
00:19:47	and Workforce is website notes
00:19:47	that Ohio law is parents
00:19:50	and guardians,
00:19:51	the right to review curriculum
00:19:51	that's being taught
00:19:53	in their kids schools.
00:19:55	So I know life wise does
00:19:55	a lot of things well.
00:19:58	There's all the things off
00:19:58	school property,
00:20:00	but shouldn't parents
00:20:02	have the right to look at
00:20:02	what life wise
00:20:04	is doing their full curriculum
00:20:06	and look it over
00:20:06	and judge for themselves?
00:20:09	Well,
00:20:09	I think you're really talking
00:20:10	about two separate issues.
00:20:12	Of course, I 100%
00:20:12	believe in parents rights.
00:20:15	And I think parents can
00:20:16	make that request, to life
00:20:16	wise into the officials.
00:20:20	That's not what happened
00:20:20	here, though.
00:20:21	This is somebody who,
00:20:22	for bigoted reasons, went
00:20:22	and stole something.
00:20:25	And it really it copyright
00:20:25	laws exist for a reason.
00:20:29	And just because,
00:20:29	you know, he's a vigilante and
00:20:32	and really,
00:20:32	it's just based on bigotry.
00:20:34	And so he goes
00:20:34	and steals something
00:20:35	and puts it out there.
00:20:36	You know,
00:20:36	you can't go steal a CD or CD.
00:20:39	That's just how old I am.
00:20:40	DVD or VHS, you know,
00:20:44	you can't just go steal other
00:20:46	people's intellectual property
00:20:46	and post it.
00:20:49	That that's common sense.
00:20:50	Everyone knows that,
00:20:52	and he's just doing that
00:20:52	to try to harm, them.
00:20:56	As far as I know,
00:20:57	I really don't know much more
00:20:57	than, you know,
00:20:59	I just what I've read about it
00:20:59	in the papers, but it makes
00:21:02	no sense for him to claim
00:21:02	to be doing something right.
00:21:06	You know,
00:21:06	he's trying to be
00:21:06	a Robin Hood, but he's
00:21:09	just acting like a hood.
00:21:11	I know the concern
00:21:11	about the curriculum
00:21:11	not being able to be
00:21:13	read is one of the things
00:21:13	that's been brought up.
00:21:15	But there's another thing
00:21:16	that some
00:21:17	critics have brought up
00:21:18	is that the people who work
00:21:18	with life wise have not gone
00:21:22	through background checks.
00:21:23	And I'm wondering,
00:21:23	you've probably been in touch
00:21:25	with the folks with life wise.
00:21:25	Is that the case?
00:21:27	Are these teachers
00:21:27	and the drivers of vehicles
00:21:31	that take the kids
00:21:31	back and forth?
00:21:32	Are they fully vetted
00:21:32	and background checked?
00:21:36	So there's two answers
00:21:36	to that.
00:21:38	Number one, yes they are.
00:21:39	They do run a background
00:21:39	check on everyone
00:21:41	that is a part
00:21:41	of their program.
00:21:43	But the second answer to that
00:21:45	is that, remember, schools
00:21:45	get to create the policy
00:21:48	and a school
00:21:48	can add that to the policy.
00:21:51	There's no nothing
00:21:51	that would stop a school
00:21:53	from saying
00:21:53	that's part of their policy.
00:21:56	And you're
00:21:56	also a co-sponsor of a bill
00:21:58	that would allow schools
00:21:58	to have chaplains.
00:22:00	And you have said that this
00:22:00	what you've got here of the,
00:22:03	release policy is open to
00:22:03	opportunities of all faiths.
00:22:08	But there are certainly people
00:22:08	that look at
00:22:12	the chaplains idea,
00:22:13	some of the other proposals,
00:22:13	and think that the legislature
00:22:16	is inviting the church,
00:22:17	especially the Christian
00:22:17	church, in the public schools
00:22:21	where kids of all faiths
00:22:21	and even no faith
00:22:23	are there
00:22:23	to get their education.
00:22:25	How do you respond to that?
00:22:27	I don't know.
00:22:27	So and I think a lot of people
00:22:29	want to mischaracterize
00:22:29	things.
00:22:30	So, so and let me just speak
00:22:30	from experience.
00:22:33	I have been a chaplain.
00:22:34	I've been a law enforcement
00:22:34	chaplain.
00:22:35	I did that for a decade.
00:22:37	And sometimes
00:22:37	people just need
00:22:39	somebody who's going to sit
00:22:39	and listen to them
00:22:41	and talk with them,
00:22:42	you know? And
00:22:43	and I was a hospice chaplain
00:22:43	for a few years as well.
00:22:47	And as a hospice chaplain,
00:22:48	I didn't say, well,
00:22:48	what is your religion?
00:22:50	You know,
00:22:50	I can't pray with you
00:22:52	if you're not my religion or
00:22:52	and I never force my religion
00:22:56	on anyone.
00:22:57	Sometimes it's really in
00:22:57	certain times somebody, it's
00:23:01	really like a mentor.
00:23:02	And you're there for someone
00:23:02	and you can talk
00:23:05	just some basic common
00:23:05	sense to them.
00:23:07	You're not necessarily
00:23:07	a mental health professional,
00:23:11	but that's not always
00:23:11	what people want
00:23:12	or always what people need.
00:23:12	And they need somebody.
00:23:15	And maybe they just
00:23:16	so many times
00:23:16	people just said, hey,
00:23:18	could you just pray with me?
00:23:19	And to be able
00:23:19	to offer up a prayer
00:23:21	or to give some practical
00:23:21	wisdom, some practical advice,
00:23:24	some character
00:23:24	building instruction,
00:23:27	and people read too much
00:23:27	into this.
00:23:30	That's not there.
00:23:33	And I had something.
00:23:34	I had an atheist, one time
00:23:34	when I was a hospice chaplain,
00:23:38	his wife was in the program,
00:23:38	and I would go
00:23:42	and I would visit and
00:23:42	we talked in different things.
00:23:46	And the only thing is I
00:23:47	we kind of both laughed
00:23:47	because I had to tell him.
00:23:49	I said, you're not an atheist.
00:23:49	He says, I'm not.
00:23:51	I said, no.
00:23:51	He said, well, what am I?
00:23:52	I said, you're an agnostic
00:23:54	because he didn't know
00:23:54	the difference between
00:23:56	an agnostic and an atheist,
00:23:56	and which he says,
00:23:58	I don't think you can know,
00:23:58	which is that's agnostic.
00:24:00	An atheist says, definitely
00:24:00	there is no God.
00:24:03	And I'm probably getting too
00:24:03	detailed for you here.
00:24:06	But,
00:24:07	but his wife got better
00:24:07	for a little while,
00:24:09	and she was no longer
00:24:09	in hospice,
00:24:11	and so I,
00:24:11	I wasn't visiting anymore.
00:24:14	And she did
00:24:14	come back into hospice.
00:24:16	He says, oh, I couldn't
00:24:16	wait to you came back
00:24:18	and we were
00:24:18	I didn't push my faith on him.
00:24:20	I'd I'd ask you any answer,
00:24:20	any questions he had.
00:24:24	And we just had good
00:24:24	conversations
00:24:25	and I'd pray for him
00:24:25	and his wife and
00:24:27	and they were happy
00:24:29	because you don't
00:24:29	have to force anything
00:24:33	on someone
00:24:33	to be an effective chaplain.
00:24:36	We mean a chaplain.
00:24:37	Ministers to everyone.
00:24:39	And you meet people
00:24:39	where they are.
00:24:41	Life Wise CEO Joel
00:24:41	Penton said in a statement
00:24:44	that the action
00:24:44	by the Westerville Board
00:24:45	of Education
00:24:46	affects 300 kids who were
00:24:46	signed up for the program,
00:24:49	as well as 18 paid staff
00:24:49	and more than 50 volunteers.
00:24:53	The statement
00:24:53	continues, quote,
00:24:55	this situation
00:24:55	clearly underscores
00:24:57	why the legislature must work
00:24:57	expediently to pass HB 445,
00:25:02	which requires school
00:25:02	districts to adopt policies
00:25:04	for religious release time
00:25:04	instruction,
00:25:07	providing more clarity
00:25:07	to communities
00:25:08	that want to implement
00:25:08	such a program.
00:25:10	Many states
00:25:11	already have such legislation
00:25:11	in place and quote,
00:25:15	and that is it for this week
00:25:15	for my colleagues
00:25:17	at the Statehouse News
00:25:17	Bureau of Ohio Public Media.
00:25:19	Thanks for watching.
00:25:20	Please check out our website
00:25:20	at State news.org
00:25:23	or find us online by searching
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Note : Transcripts are compiled from uncorrected captions