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The State of Ohio

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Gov. Mike DeWine wants Ohioans to reject a proposed redistricting amendment and trust Republicans to come up with a better plan. But backers of the amendment say politicians have had their chance. Guests are Chris Davey, spokesman, Citizens Not Politicians campaign, Sam Wang, a redistricting expert, Brianna Mack, assistant prof. at OWU and Paul Beck, professor at OSU.

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00:00:39	Governor
00:00:39	Mike DeWine wants Ohioans
00:00:41	to reject a proposed
00:00:41	redistricting amendment.
00:00:45	And trust Republicans
00:00:45	to come up with a better plan.
00:00:48	But backers of the amendment
00:00:48	say politicians
00:00:51	have had their chance.
00:00:53	That's this
00:00:53	week in the state of Ohio.
00:01:14	Welcome to the state of Ohio.
00:01:16	I'm Joe Ingles
00:01:16	sitting in for Karen Kasler.
00:01:20	Governor Mike
00:01:20	DeWine is blasting
00:01:20	a redistricting amendment set
00:01:24	for the fall ballot,
00:01:24	which would strip politicians
00:01:27	of power over
00:01:27	drawing lawmakers districts
00:01:30	and give it over
00:01:30	to a 15 member citizen panel.
00:01:35	If this ballot proposal
00:01:35	were to be adopted,
00:01:39	Ohio would actually end up
00:01:39	with a system that mandates,
00:01:43	that mandates, that compels
00:01:46	map draws to produce
00:01:46	gerrymandered districts.
00:01:50	In fact, Ohio would have
00:01:50	gerrymandering in the extreme.
00:01:55	DeWine
00:01:55	is opposing the amendment,
00:01:58	which would disband the Ohio
00:01:58	redistricting Commission,
00:02:01	which he and six other elected
00:02:01	officials said on.
00:02:05	DeWine said the process
00:02:05	and the amendment would not
00:02:09	keep communities together,
00:02:11	but would prioritize
00:02:11	proportionality,
00:02:14	keeping people
00:02:15	who are like
00:02:16	minded politically or who
00:02:16	vote a certain way together.
00:02:20	He said that will mean
00:02:20	gerrymandered districts
00:02:24	One of the reasons
00:02:24	that voters will be unhappy
00:02:27	with the maps that
00:02:27	the amendment will produce
00:02:29	is that the fall
00:02:30	ballot proposal
00:02:30	will makes proportionality.
00:02:34	It makes it king.
00:02:37	Proportionality under
00:02:37	this constitutional amendment
00:02:39	must supersede
00:02:39	everything else.
00:02:42	A spokesman for the group
00:02:42	behind the amendment
00:02:45	says DeWine has got it all
00:02:45	wrong.
00:02:48	Chris Davey was citizens,
00:02:48	not politicians,
00:02:52	says former Ohio Supreme Court
00:02:52	Chief Justice Maureen
00:02:56	O'Connor, the lone Republican
00:02:56	to vote to reject the maps
00:03:00	approved by the redistricting
00:03:00	commission,
00:03:02	wants to talk to DeWine
00:03:02	about it.
00:03:05	the fact of the matter
00:03:05	is the first criteria
00:03:09	for drawing the maps
00:03:09	under the citizens,
00:03:12	not politicians amendment
00:03:12	would be, in fact, that
00:03:16	the districts must be
00:03:16	geographically contiguous,
00:03:21	that they comply with
00:03:21	the United States Constitution
00:03:25	and that they comply
00:03:25	with the Voting Rights Act.
00:03:28	Davey notes Ohioans
00:03:28	passed reforms that were
00:03:31	supposed to end gerrymandering
00:03:31	in 2015 and in 2018,
00:03:37	but it hasn't worked out
00:03:37	that way for one key reason.
00:03:40	the problem was
00:03:40	the politicians
00:03:42	were kept in charge,
00:03:43	and they continued to past
00:03:43	seven times.
00:03:46	They passed maps
00:03:46	that were determined
00:03:48	to be unconstitutional,
00:03:48	seven times.
00:03:50	the redistricting commission
00:03:50	that governor DeWine is on
00:03:54	impose
00:03:54	those maps on the Ohio voters,
00:03:57	and the Ohio voters
00:03:57	have stepped forward
00:04:00	and said, yeah, no,
00:04:00	I think what we need to do
00:04:02	is get the politicians
00:04:02	out of the map drawing room.
00:04:04	So that's
00:04:04	what we're going to do.
00:04:05	In making his comments
00:04:05	about changing redistricting,
00:04:09	DeWine says if voters reject
00:04:09	the constitutional amendment
00:04:13	on the November ballot,
00:04:15	he's promising to work
00:04:15	with legislative leaders
00:04:18	in the next General
00:04:18	Assembly next year
00:04:21	to pass a plan similar
00:04:21	to the one that's been
00:04:24	in place in Iowa for decades.
00:04:27	DeWine showed maps
00:04:27	drafted by citizens
00:04:30	and a professional mapmaker
00:04:30	who worked for Democrats
00:04:34	during the most recent
00:04:34	redistricting process
00:04:37	and says both have problems.
00:04:40	The Iowa plan is simple,
00:04:40	it is clear,
00:04:45	and it takes politics
00:04:45	out of the map
00:04:48	drawing process forever.
00:04:51	So what is the Iowa plan?
00:04:53	To learn more about it.
00:04:54	We turn to Sam Wang,
00:04:54	a redistricting expert
00:04:58	He's published work
00:04:59	on redistricting and examined
00:04:59	different methods
00:05:02	being used by various
00:05:02	states for drawing lines.
00:05:22	it's one
00:05:22	of the earliest approaches to,
00:05:25	coming up with nonpartisan
00:05:25	approaches to redistricting.
00:05:28	And it dates to a time
00:05:28	when it was possible for,
00:05:32	administrative staff
00:05:32	to make a recommendation
00:05:34	and have it taken up
00:05:34	without controversy.
00:05:37	And so, because
00:05:37	of the culture of Iowa,
00:05:40	they've actually been fairly
00:05:40	fortunate
00:05:42	in being able to use that
00:05:42	output without a lot of rancor
00:05:46	and division
00:05:46	at the legislative level.
00:05:48	the plans recommended
00:05:48	by the Iowa Commission are,
00:05:53	optional for adoption
00:05:53	by the legislature.
00:05:57	They can turn it down
00:05:57	and replace it with their own
00:05:59	if they follow the mechanisms
00:05:59	that are in Iowa law.
00:06:03	Now, you just said, because of
00:06:03	the culture of Iowa,
00:06:06	is Iowa's,
00:06:06	make up different than Ohio?
00:06:10	Is it much smaller,
00:06:10	much more compact?
00:06:12	I mean, what
00:06:12	what are you talking about?
00:06:13	I think, it's it's just that
00:06:13	Iowa has a longer history
00:06:17	of dealing with,
00:06:18	nonpartisan redistricting
00:06:18	since the Iowa example.
00:06:22	As I said,
00:06:22	it was one of the earliest.
00:06:24	there have been
00:06:25	several decades of, attempts
00:06:25	at redistricting reform.
00:06:29	And ever since
00:06:30	the 1990s, American politics
00:06:30	has gotten more polarized
00:06:33	and more contentious.
00:06:33	And so with that,
00:06:36	it's become necessary
00:06:36	to put in more seatbelts,
00:06:39	to write into the law
00:06:39	the kind of good faith
00:06:41	that people used to engage
00:06:41	in back in the 1980s.
00:06:44	And so now,
00:06:44	there have been later
00:06:46	experiments plugging
00:06:47	loopholes, there
00:06:47	been loopholes closed,
00:06:51	progressively,
00:06:51	successively more
00:06:54	and more careful approaches
00:06:54	to the law
00:06:57	in Arizona,
00:06:57	Michigan, Colorado.
00:06:59	and the proposed initiative
00:06:59	that's on the ballot in Ohio.
00:07:03	learns
00:07:03	from all those examples,
00:07:05	not only Iowa,
00:07:06	but also the improvements
00:07:06	that have come afterward.
00:07:09	So the current
00:07:09	redistricting proposal
00:07:12	that's on the ballot
00:07:12	has elements of Iowa in it.
00:07:15	Then it does.
00:07:15	It has elements of Iowa in it.
00:07:18	But what it does is it
00:07:18	puts it in the hands of,
00:07:22	experts working for citizens.
00:07:25	So it's a commission
00:07:25	of Democrats,
00:07:26	Republicans and independents.
00:07:28	They come together
00:07:28	and they have to vote
00:07:31	on a supermajority basis
00:07:31	in order to pass anything.
00:07:34	And so,
00:07:34	the proposed law in Ohio
00:07:38	that's on the ballot
00:07:38	this November,
00:07:40	requires
00:07:40	a consensus to be reached
00:07:43	among
00:07:43	these different factions.
00:07:46	Is that
00:07:46	an improved version of Iowa?
00:07:48	Maybe. Yes.
00:07:49	The closest model,
00:07:49	to the Ohio proposal
00:07:53	is what was passed in Michigan
00:07:53	a few years ago.
00:07:57	and also in, as I said, in
00:07:57	Colorado and Arizona.
00:08:00	So, so the idea is to build
00:08:00	a mechanism where
00:08:03	these three different groups,
00:08:03	partizans.
00:08:05	And also people
00:08:05	who are not partizans
00:08:07	and all have to come together,
00:08:09	work together,
00:08:09	have public hearings.
00:08:11	there's a fairly detailed
00:08:11	procedure in the Ohio law
00:08:13	that, that learns
00:08:13	from a more recent example.
00:08:17	and the most recent examples
00:08:17	are Michigan and Colorado.
00:08:21	The Iowa plan itself, going
00:08:21	back to it, it ultimately
00:08:26	still depends on lawmakers
00:08:26	in the legislature to pass it.
00:08:29	Right.
00:08:30	Yes. Lawmakers must still
00:08:30	approve the plan.
00:08:32	In Iowa
00:08:34	and in Ohio, we have had law,
00:08:39	in Ohio,
00:08:39	we have had a legislature
00:08:41	that has been fractured
00:08:41	where it is difficult
00:08:46	to get anything passed.
00:08:47	Do you think that
00:08:47	that could be a problem if,
00:08:50	if they if the ballot measure
00:08:50	is scrapped in November
00:08:56	and somehow we come back
00:08:56	with an Iowa plan,
00:08:59	the legislature comes back
00:08:59	with an Iowa plan next year.
00:09:03	That depends
00:09:03	on the legislature to pass it.
00:09:05	Do you think there could be
00:09:06	enough contention
00:09:06	that it could be a problem?
00:09:11	Well, the way I would put it
00:09:11	is that any state
00:09:13	that has one party firmly in
00:09:13	control is going to have,
00:09:17	a natural
00:09:17	conflict of interest
00:09:19	in doing a good job
00:09:19	in redistricting.
00:09:21	whether it's Republicans
00:09:21	or Democrats in charge,
00:09:25	over and over, we've seen,
00:09:25	at the gerrymandering project,
00:09:28	we've seen examples where
00:09:28	a single party in charge,
00:09:31	has very little incentive
00:09:31	to take into account,
00:09:35	a broad range of needs,
00:09:37	whether it be of communities
00:09:37	or political parties,
00:09:40	or any really needs
00:09:40	of the state.
00:09:43	it's just the temptation
00:09:43	is overwhelming to deal,
00:09:46	and it's just really hard
00:09:46	for any human,
00:09:48	including a politician, to,
00:09:48	to overcome that temptation.
00:09:54	Is there a
00:09:55	magic bullet out there
00:09:55	for redistricting?
00:09:58	Some method
00:09:58	that really seems to work?
00:10:00	Or do you think the Ohio plan
00:10:00	that's proposed
00:10:03	is that method,
00:10:05	the Ohio plan
00:10:05	that's on the ballot
00:10:06	this November comes
00:10:06	the closest
00:10:08	to being, a silver bullet
00:10:08	to getting to the fair
00:10:12	district thing.
00:10:13	it's, of course, tough
00:10:13	to come up with a good plan.
00:10:15	justice is tough to come up
00:10:15	with a bullet proof,
00:10:18	say, contract
00:10:18	when you're selling a house.
00:10:21	but a lot of,
00:10:21	good people have thought
00:10:23	pretty hard
00:10:23	about the Ohio proposal,
00:10:26	and they've figured out ways
00:10:26	to make sure that everyone's
00:10:29	needs are accounted for, and
00:10:29	there's an equitable outcome.
00:10:32	It's, it appears
00:10:32	I would say, in comparison
00:10:36	to other recently
00:10:36	enacted plans,
00:10:38	it appears
00:10:38	to be a pretty good,
00:10:41	a pretty good strategy
00:10:41	for, closing loopholes.
00:10:45	O'Connor helped write
00:10:45	the citizens
00:10:48	not politicians amendment.
00:10:50	And she noted the Iowa plan
00:10:50	DeWine was talking about
00:10:54	still gives him
00:10:55	and other politicians
00:10:55	the final say on maps.
00:10:59	And she says, now,
00:11:01	a little
00:11:01	more than three months prior
00:11:01	to the election, he's scheming
00:11:05	to overturn what voters
00:11:05	will pass in November.
00:11:09	O'Connor says the backers
00:11:10	of the citizens,
00:11:10	not politician amendment,
00:11:13	are done listening
00:11:13	to self-serving politicians
00:11:16	telling them how they want
00:11:16	to keep rigging the game.
00:11:19	And she adds, on to November.
00:11:23	So what
00:11:23	effect will this proposed
00:11:26	redistricting amendment
00:11:26	have on the November election?
00:11:29	To answer that question,
00:11:29	I spoke to two political
00:11:32	experts
00:11:32	Brianna mack, assistant
00:11:35	professor of politics
00:11:35	and government
00:11:37	at Ohio Wesleyan University,
00:11:37	and Paul Beck, professor
00:11:42	emeritus of political science
00:11:42	at the Ohio State University.
00:11:46	Well, I think
00:11:47	the fair district thing,
00:11:47	initiative on the ballot
00:11:51	will probably encourage
00:11:51	the same voters who turned out
00:11:54	for the special election
00:11:54	last year.
00:11:56	I think the results from
00:11:56	last year also invigorated.
00:12:00	I would argue, the same base.
00:12:01	And so those folks
00:12:01	will turn out again
00:12:02	to ensure that future
00:12:02	elections 2628 onward.
00:12:06	Right.
00:12:07	Would have more equitable
00:12:07	districts.
00:12:09	And so,
00:12:09	since the redistricting fiasco
00:12:13	has been such
00:12:13	for the last few years,
00:12:15	that there have been
00:12:15	a number of folks
00:12:16	who have been discouraged.
00:12:17	But learning that the ballot,
00:12:17	you know, the,
00:12:20	petitions had received
00:12:20	enough signatures
00:12:23	and that it would appear
00:12:24	that there
00:12:24	is some excitement there.
00:12:27	Yeah.
00:12:27	And you know,
00:12:28	the we should mention that
00:12:28	the redistricting amendment
00:12:31	has support
00:12:31	from both Republicans
00:12:34	and Democrats
00:12:34	and, former chief
00:12:36	justice of the Ohio Supreme
00:12:36	Court, a Republican, Maureen
00:12:39	O'Connor, actually helped
00:12:39	craft that amendment.
00:12:43	So, it's not a Democratic
00:12:43	policy, if you will, although
00:12:48	Republicans would say it
00:12:48	definitely, benefits
00:12:51	Democrats.
00:12:52	But, you know,
00:12:52	what do you think about that?
00:12:55	I think voters
00:12:55	are justifiably angry
00:12:59	that they twice voted
00:12:59	for redistricting reform
00:13:03	and twice were turned down
00:13:03	by the legislature.
00:13:07	and, of course,
00:13:07	the Supreme Court had sided
00:13:09	the legislature
00:13:09	and pushed them
00:13:12	to try to follow up
00:13:12	with the constitutional
00:13:15	amendment
00:13:15	as it had been passed.
00:13:18	and so I think it's
00:13:18	going to mobilize voters.
00:13:21	and as she pointed out, it's
00:13:21	going to help
00:13:25	fuel turnout
00:13:25	on the Democratic side.
00:13:28	because I think voters
00:13:28	now having been twice dissed
00:13:33	are going to say
00:13:33	to the legislature,
00:13:35	we don't want to hear
00:13:35	from you.
00:13:37	We don't want to hear
00:13:37	something
00:13:38	that is so patently obvious,
00:13:38	a gerrymander in favor
00:13:42	of the Republicans.
00:13:43	the the fair districting
00:13:46	amendment
00:13:46	may have some flaws to it,
00:13:49	but it looks like it's
00:13:49	been very tightly framed
00:13:52	to try to avoid the pitfalls
00:13:52	that previous ones had.
00:13:56	that could be bypassed
00:13:56	by by legislative majorities.
00:14:01	Now, about ten years ago,
00:14:01	we saw redistricting
00:14:03	amendments, on the ballot.
00:14:05	in fact, that's what
00:14:07	set up the system we now have
00:14:07	because one of them passed.
00:14:10	But that was the one that
00:14:11	Republicans
00:14:11	kind of got on board and,
00:14:14	you know, moved it ahead.
00:14:15	but we saw back then
00:14:15	a lot of confusion
00:14:19	over redistricting.
00:14:20	People didn't understand it
00:14:20	so much.
00:14:23	Do people understand
00:14:23	redistricting better now?
00:14:26	I mean, what's the
00:14:26	what's the take away on that?
00:14:28	I would like to believe
00:14:28	at least my students
00:14:30	and an alumni,
00:14:31	they understand it better
00:14:32	because we go over it
00:14:34	repeatedly in intro as well
00:14:34	as in voters in elections.
00:14:37	But I think
00:14:38	I would like to believe that
00:14:40	most people understand
00:14:40	that, you know,
00:14:42	after a decade or so,
00:14:42	you know,
00:14:44	we run through the process
00:14:44	with the census,
00:14:46	with the census, and
00:14:46	then there's reapportionment
00:14:48	and there's redistricting,
00:14:48	and that for some reason,
00:14:51	Ohio,
00:14:51	we just we're stuck in this
00:14:54	loop here
00:14:54	at the redistricting part,
00:14:55	because the districts just
00:14:55	don't seem representative and
00:15:00	we want them
00:15:00	to be representative.
00:15:01	And so perhaps that's
00:15:01	where that frustration is.
00:15:04	But I would like to believe
00:15:04	that most folks do
00:15:07	actually understand
00:15:07	how the process works.
00:15:09	It's just that for Ohio,
00:15:11	we're just not reaching
00:15:11	that endpoint.
00:15:13	And it's not through any fault
00:15:13	of the voters themselves.
00:15:17	What do you think?
00:15:17	Well,
00:15:17	I think it was a masterstroke
00:15:19	to label that citizens,
00:15:19	not politicians,
00:15:22	because politicians
00:15:22	are held in very low esteem.
00:15:26	maybe deservedly
00:15:27	so, but certainly
00:15:27	they are held in low esteem.
00:15:31	and the idea of some kind
00:15:31	of a citizens commission
00:15:35	that doesn't contain any,
00:15:35	at least active politicians,
00:15:39	I think it's something
00:15:40	that's
00:15:40	going to resonate with voters.
00:15:43	and so sometimes how you label
00:15:43	something can create
00:15:47	can cut through the confusion
00:15:47	about it.
00:15:49	and I think this, this
00:15:49	will successfully do that.
00:15:53	The switch at the top of the
00:15:54	Democratic ticket continues
00:15:54	to play out here in Ohio.
00:15:58	Since
00:15:58	President Biden announced
00:16:00	he wasn't
00:16:00	running for reelection
00:16:01	and put his weight behind
00:16:01	Vice President Kamala Harris.
00:16:06	She's been making waves.
00:16:08	I asked Beck and Mack
00:16:08	about their thoughts on
00:16:11	how that switch will affect
00:16:11	the Ohio ballot.
00:16:15	I think Ohio is a lost cause
00:16:15	for the Democratic Party
00:16:20	because we have what we,
00:16:20	the GOP, has JD Vance.
00:16:24	So now with Trump
00:16:25	having JD Vance
00:16:25	as his running mate
00:16:27	and he's Ohio's
00:16:27	junior senator,
00:16:30	I think that Ohio is a shoo
00:16:30	in for the GOP.
00:16:33	What about you, Paul? Well,
00:16:33	I'm not so sure.
00:16:35	I think that Ohio has been
00:16:35	a Trump state, obviously.
00:16:39	whether it now
00:16:39	is in the Republican column,
00:16:42	aside from Trump,
00:16:42	I don't know for sure.
00:16:45	And if you think back,
00:16:47	Cordray
00:16:48	and DeWine,
00:16:48	when they ran against
00:16:49	each other,
00:16:49	that was a fairly close race.
00:16:52	even though DeWine
00:16:52	was a very well known
00:16:55	commodity in Ohio,
00:16:55	Cordray left.
00:16:57	So, and so I think that Ohio
00:17:01	is recoverable
00:17:01	by the Democrats,
00:17:04	whether they have the ability
00:17:04	to do that is clear.
00:17:07	they've particularly taken
00:17:07	a bath in rural areas
00:17:11	and small towns.
00:17:12	and it's been mostly
00:17:12	because of lower turnout
00:17:16	among Democrats in those areas
00:17:16	who just are
00:17:19	not enthused about
00:17:19	the Democratic Party anymore.
00:17:22	if Kamala were to choose
00:17:22	a vice
00:17:26	presidential running mate
00:17:26	who might be able to draw well
00:17:30	among rural and small town
00:17:30	voters, not win a majority,
00:17:33	that's likely to happen.
00:17:35	but she could recover
00:17:35	some of the ground
00:17:37	that the Democrats
00:17:37	had lost there.
00:17:39	it wasn't so long ago
00:17:39	a little Obama won Ohio twice.
00:17:43	That is true.
00:17:44	And Trump won it only with 51
00:17:44	and 53% of the vote.
00:17:48	That's a bare majority.
00:17:50	so there's you know,
00:17:50	there are a lot of Ohioans
00:17:54	who don't necessarily
00:17:54	want to vote Republican,
00:17:58	but they will, given the
00:17:59	kinds of choices
00:17:59	maybe, that they have.
00:18:01	So what effect
00:18:01	do you think Harris's campaign
00:18:04	will have on US
00:18:05	Senator Sherrod
00:18:05	Brown's campaign in November?
00:18:08	Well, I think that what
00:18:08	Sherrod Brown was hoping for
00:18:11	and finally
00:18:12	he announced this, that Biden
00:18:12	would indeed drop out
00:18:16	because he felt that Biden
00:18:16	at the top of the ticket
00:18:18	was really going
00:18:18	to be damaging to him.
00:18:21	And I think that feeling
00:18:21	was probably correct.
00:18:24	having Harris
00:18:24	there may not help him
00:18:27	in a positive sense,
00:18:27	but it probably won't hurt him
00:18:31	also, so that I think is
00:18:31	good news for Brown
00:18:35	was going to be a very close
00:18:35	contest anyway, I think,
00:18:39	but Brown has a survivability
00:18:39	that is actually remarkable.
00:18:44	he's been reelected time
00:18:44	and time again,
00:18:47	in years where you thought
00:18:47	he's not going to win.
00:18:51	but indeed he does.
00:18:52	So I think that he has what,
00:18:52	a level of authenticity
00:18:57	that Ohioans like.
00:18:58	And he draws better in
00:18:58	rural areas and small towns,
00:19:01	than the typical Democrat
00:19:01	does.
00:19:04	Brianna,
00:19:04	what's your thoughts on that?
00:19:05	I agree 100%.
00:19:07	So coming
00:19:07	teaching in a rural area,
00:19:10	I know that
00:19:10	there are a lot of individuals
00:19:12	who like Sherrod Brown
00:19:13	because he appeals to the blue
00:19:13	collar, to the rural worker.
00:19:16	And so I believe with Harris's
00:19:16	campaign,
00:19:19	I think it would not only
00:19:19	attract still younger voters,
00:19:23	it would still allow Brown
00:19:25	to actually continue
00:19:25	mobilizing rural area voters.
00:19:29	Okay, so,
00:19:30	have you noticed a difference
00:19:30	in the messaging
00:19:33	in the recent weeks since,
00:19:33	this switch is taken place?
00:19:38	I've noticed that, Harris's
00:19:38	campaign in particular,
00:19:41	because I'm on TikTok.
00:19:43	And so seeing the ads and,
00:19:43	you know,
00:19:45	as I mentioned before,
00:19:45	Beyonce's music.
00:19:47	So we're talking
00:19:47	more about these virtues
00:19:49	and really pushing
00:19:49	for this whole message
00:19:51	about saving democracy.
00:19:53	And we're going to push
00:19:53	forward and continue
00:19:54	to provide
00:19:55	you younger folks with,
00:19:55	you know,
00:19:57	the promises
00:19:57	of an American life,
00:19:59	you know, life, liberty,
00:19:59	pursuit of happiness.
00:20:01	You're going to get, you
00:20:01	know, be able to buy property.
00:20:03	You'll be able to start
00:20:03	a family if you want to.
00:20:06	You'll be able to get
00:20:06	an education if you want to.
00:20:08	All of these things
00:20:08	that are being talked
00:20:10	about being removed
00:20:10	through project 2025.
00:20:13	And so while she hasn't,
00:20:13	to my knowledge,
00:20:16	explicitly started
00:20:16	attacking project 25 yet,
00:20:19	but she is making,
00:20:20	you know, these references
00:20:20	to tackling that.
00:20:23	And we should say that
00:20:23	project 2025 is attached
00:20:26	to the Heritage Foundation,
00:20:26	a conservative group.
00:20:29	and a lot of thought
00:20:29	has been given that,
00:20:33	the same people who push
00:20:33	the Heritage Foundation
00:20:36	are some of the people
00:20:36	who are Republican.
00:20:39	you know, active
00:20:39	in the Republican Party
00:20:42	and probably have a
00:20:42	at least president,
00:20:45	former President Trump's
00:20:45	ears. Yes.
00:20:48	So, let me ask you what what
00:20:48	are your thoughts on that?
00:20:52	Well,
00:20:52	in terms of project 2025,
00:20:54	obviously it has fingerprints
00:20:54	all over it
00:20:57	that are fingerprints from the
00:20:57	former Trump administration.
00:21:00	and JD Vance is writing,
00:21:00	I believe it's the preface
00:21:04	to the book
00:21:04	that's going to come out.
00:21:06	I would guess
00:21:06	that the Trump campaign
00:21:10	is not particularly happy
00:21:10	about that.
00:21:13	and in fact,
00:21:13	has not been really happy
00:21:15	about the rollout of JD Vance
00:21:15	and actually coming
00:21:18	back to Ohio for a minute.
00:21:20	I think JD
00:21:20	Vance is not the JD Vance
00:21:24	he was when he won the Senate
00:21:24	race.
00:21:27	A lot has come out
00:21:27	since then that makes him
00:21:30	look well, the term that the
00:21:32	the Democrats are using to attac
00:21:37	and I think that
00:21:38	that is probably accurate,
00:21:38	that he's taken positions
00:21:42	that are just really odd
00:21:42	position to take.
00:21:45	and he's doubled
00:21:45	down on those positions.
00:21:49	A cat lady.
00:21:49	Exactly.
00:21:51	That comment about,
00:21:52	you know, families
00:21:52	getting more votes than right.
00:21:55	people
00:21:55	who don't have families. Yeah.
00:21:57	And they're just things
00:21:57	that he didn't need to say.
00:21:59	But I think in the heat
00:22:00	of the moment, back
00:22:00	before he was a candidate
00:22:03	for vice president,
00:22:04	they seemed like
00:22:04	natural things to say.
00:22:07	And he indeed said them.
00:22:09	the other thing
00:22:09	about project 2025
00:22:11	is that a lot of the things
00:22:11	that they're proposing have
00:22:16	been proposed by Republicans
00:22:16	for years and years.
00:22:19	So a lot of them are familiar
00:22:19	things.
00:22:23	they've kind of soft pedal
00:22:23	the idea of cuts to the
00:22:26	social safety net,
00:22:27	particularly Medicare
00:22:27	and Social Security.
00:22:30	But there's still hints of
00:22:30	that in there.
00:22:33	they also are reflecting
00:22:33	the turn
00:22:37	that Trump has created
00:22:37	for the Republicans away
00:22:41	from some of the traditional
00:22:41	Republican policies,
00:22:44	to want to slap on tariffs.
00:22:44	to oppose open trade,
00:22:50	certainly the whole issue,
00:22:50	of choice is there.
00:22:54	and, of course, Vance has
00:22:54	doubled down on that as well.
00:22:58	And getting rid of Noah
00:22:58	whether.
00:23:00	Yes. Agency. So yeah.
00:23:02	Yeah.
00:23:02	So, turn out though you
00:23:04	you were talking about this
00:23:04	a little bit earlier.
00:23:06	Turnout is key in this.
00:23:08	does this change
00:23:08	just having Harris in the race
00:23:12	now, does that change the
00:23:12	the energy
00:23:16	or the will of some voters
00:23:16	to make it to the polls?
00:23:20	I think it does.
00:23:21	I think there are particularly
00:23:21	three groups that she is.
00:23:25	Her her candidacy
00:23:25	has basically mobilized.
00:23:29	One is young people,
00:23:29	as Brianna was was suggesting.
00:23:33	Second one is African
00:23:33	Americans.
00:23:36	and you've seen visible
00:23:36	evidence of that as well.
00:23:40	And then thirdly, people
00:23:42	who were not all that happy
00:23:42	about Biden, who had voted
00:23:45	for him, maybe in 2020,
00:23:45	but were not enthused by him.
00:23:50	There's a level of enthusiasm,
00:23:50	at least right
00:23:52	now, in the Harris campaign,
00:23:54	and it may get sustained over
00:23:54	time.
00:23:56	It may not, but
00:23:56	but right now it's there.
00:23:59	She has the momentum
00:23:59	right now, which is important.
00:24:02	she's going to ride
00:24:02	that momentum,
00:24:04	I think, as long as she can.
00:24:06	And that, of course,
00:24:06	leads to greater enthusiasm.
00:24:09	You saw it
00:24:09	in the number of volunteers
00:24:11	that she attracted
00:24:11	just after she had announced
00:24:14	her campaign.
00:24:15	you saw the
00:24:15	the volume of money
00:24:18	that was flowing
00:24:18	into that campaign,
00:24:19	an unprecedented amount
00:24:19	of million or more, I think.
00:24:22	Yeah, 200 million o 200,
00:24:22	and much of it
00:24:26	from first time donors,
00:24:26	which is interesting.
00:24:29	It's that time of year
00:24:29	for a tax free holiday.
00:24:33	And this year's holiday,
00:24:33	which began Tuesday, runs
00:24:37	ten days, ending on Thursday,
00:24:37	August 8th.
00:24:41	You can buy more products
00:24:41	this year.
00:24:43	Virtually
00:24:43	everything under $500.
00:24:46	Clothes, school equipment,
00:24:46	appliances and furniture.
00:24:50	It's all tax free,
00:24:52	and you can even dine in a
00:24:52	restaurant tax free this year.
00:24:56	But alcohol cigarets,
00:24:56	marijuana, they're exempt
00:24:59	from the sales tax break
00:24:59	and so are cars and boats.
00:25:04	So that's it for this week
00:25:05	for my colleagues
00:25:05	at the Statehouse
00:25:07	News Bureau of Ohio Public
00:25:07	Radio and Television.
00:25:10	Thanks for watching.
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Note : Transcripts are compiled from uncorrected captions